Green Zinger Tea - Kristaps Porziņģis 2023-24
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I mean it tells us something, but not much. Guessing we won't know about the severity for a little while.
Luxuriously, they don't need him to finish off Miami or the ORL/CLE winner.
Luxuriously, they don't need him to finish off Miami or the ORL/CLE winner.
Goddammit, I miss DRS because he was an awesome guy, but I miss him even more in times like this. Without knowing the grade of the strain, we're looking at a range between days and months. So yes, Giannis suffered the same injury, but the severity is absolutely critical to determine here.
My sister is an athletic trainer and she thinks he’ll be out as long as Giannis because they won’t want setbacks given his prior injury history.
Although tbf, Giannis will be out much longer, because his team is going home tonight
Bingo!!!Although tbf, Giannis will be out much longer, because his team is going home tonight
Giannis has had achilles problems in the same foot for months and might well have a higher grade strain. KP injured his other calf like 4 months ago and fully healed. Not sure I understand?
When Porzingis suffered a calf strain in November, he missed four games over 14 days. That was called a mild strain. Obviously we don't know if this one is worse, not as bad or the same. But optimistically he could be back by the ECF, or even sooner.
Seems about as good as could be hoped for, given initial concerns. It helps a lot that the rest of the East is mediocre or injured, but the C's top 8 even without KP is just a really, really good team.
One under-talked-about thing is that KP just hasn't been the same cheat code since they changed the rules in Feb. You can really body him now, and stop that FT-line postup from being 1.5 points or whatever stupidity it was in the Old NBA. I don't think they'll miss him quite as much as people worry about.
One under-talked-about thing is that KP just hasn't been the same cheat code since they changed the rules in Feb. You can really body him now, and stop that FT-line postup from being 1.5 points or whatever stupidity it was in the Old NBA. I don't think they'll miss him quite as much as people worry about.
I hope so, but it's been odd that he's been glued to the bench so far--I expected at least a few minutes with a huge lead and KP out last night. Al is going to wear out if it's a 2-man rotation with Kornet until KP is back.
I'm not so certain. Tillman seems like insurance for Al with Kornet in the Porzingis role. Barring further issues, I'd expect to see Tillman now about as much as we've seen Kornet to this point.
Celtics should be able to make the finals without him
Key word should. But given the stated timetable, back for the Finals sounds like an attainable goal, provided we get there.
Key word should. But given the stated timetable, back for the Finals sounds like an attainable goal, provided we get there.
Agree. No need to do anything but a Horford/Kornet rotation against the upcoming matchups and Miami.
Not a rule change but a directive from the league to call the game differently. Basically, let them play. It's hurt KP's numbers.
I think it’s likely he’d be back by the ECF (21 days away). They certainly should be able to get that far.
This team without KP is still better than last year’s team with bummy Timelord. I think the Knicks are legitimately good and a significant threat to Boston without KP (even with him), but it’s not like Boston couldn’t beat them or even a WC team in the finals without him. They’re loaded.
This may have been reported somewhere, but do we know if he has injured the same calf at the start of the season as he did last night? Or was it the other one.
As most folks here know, repetitive injures to the same muscle tend compound in severity/recovery time, and also make the muscle more prone to further injury in the future
As most folks here know, repetitive injures to the same muscle tend compound in severity/recovery time, and also make the muscle more prone to further injury in the future
With all due respect to your sister, without having examined the severity of the injury and possibly without understanding the context of playoffs v. regular season, how would she know?
I agree - if he's going to be bullied out to the free throw line and given no room to breathe, well I don't love that shot anyway. Of course they're better off with him by a long shot and they'll miss is rim protection, but this is survivable.
Obviously nobody can know the degree, but one of the injury analytics guys pulled the data and came up with 17 days as the average missed game time for injuries NBA teams released as a soleus strain, so 2-3 weeks seems a reasonable expectation
I’d feel pretty good about him being back for ECF based on his own reaction and the mean timeline you just posted. You know he isn’t going to want to miss sticking it to the Knicks in the ECF.
100% the absolute best case scenario for both maybe The Finals but for the future too.
You should get her an account here. Doesn't she want to hang out with a bunch of internet geeks?
Because calf injuries, like other soft tissue injuries in the leg, are temperamental and can linger on. Need to be extra careful to not come back too early and risk an Achilles injury as well.
Knicks are going to have a much harder time with the Pacers than people are expecting.
So in terms of timeline....
The earliest the next round can start would be 6 days post-injury
The ECF would start either 20 days post injury or 22 days post-injury
NBA finals start 38 days post-injury
The earliest the next round can start would be 6 days post-injury
The ECF would start either 20 days post injury or 22 days post-injury
NBA finals start 38 days post-injury
I don't have much to add, the team will know a bit more having seen the MRI. Though even with that there is some guesswork as far as prognostication and return to play estimates.
Taking all comers in this general range (i.e grade 1 or grade 2, excluding the extremes of MRI negative cases and potentially surgical grade 3 cases), the midpoint return to play tends to be 3-4 weeks or so. If we knew for a fact this is a grade 1, more like 2-3 weeks. But because there are only 3 grades to keep things simple, you can really have different degrees of each. mild grade 1, severe grade 1, mild grade 2, severe grade 2 etc. Just knowing "grade 1" tells us it's not too bad but not really enough.
Most of the data on return to play is actually in European rugby and soccer players. They've done a lot of work trying to pinpoint things a bit better by measuring the length of tearing, the cross sectional area, position of the tear within the muscle or tendon etc . But there are so many variables re: prior injury, time of the season, importance of the player, individual healing that the data tends to be all over the map from about 2-8 weeks.
I'm putting together a lecture for the residents now about MRI grading of muscle injuries in elite athletes and return to play. The bottom line is that it's tricky and in the end the clinical factors tend to be very important, often outweighing the MRI findings.
Taking all comers in this general range (i.e grade 1 or grade 2, excluding the extremes of MRI negative cases and potentially surgical grade 3 cases), the midpoint return to play tends to be 3-4 weeks or so. If we knew for a fact this is a grade 1, more like 2-3 weeks. But because there are only 3 grades to keep things simple, you can really have different degrees of each. mild grade 1, severe grade 1, mild grade 2, severe grade 2 etc. Just knowing "grade 1" tells us it's not too bad but not really enough.
Most of the data on return to play is actually in European rugby and soccer players. They've done a lot of work trying to pinpoint things a bit better by measuring the length of tearing, the cross sectional area, position of the tear within the muscle or tendon etc . But there are so many variables re: prior injury, time of the season, importance of the player, individual healing that the data tends to be all over the map from about 2-8 weeks.
I'm putting together a lecture for the residents now about MRI grading of muscle injuries in elite athletes and return to play. The bottom line is that it's tricky and in the end the clinical factors tend to be very important, often outweighing the MRI findings.
Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not questioning it... ...but what's your source? Has this been reported somewhere?
Here's one link. It's right now, and was left last time:
It was also 5 months ago at this point, so I'm not sure it would matter too much with a low grade sprain to begin with, but Rad knows more about that. My thoughts were the more severe ones can impact you later, but a small one that fully heals probably wouldn't.
Kristaps Porzingis injury update: Latest news on Celtics center after leaving Game 4 with 'calf tightness' | Sporting News
I’d be curious is the leg that was questionable before the game was the one with the initial tweak or the calf injury that took him out. If his left leg was bothering him before the game, and that was the initial tweak, you could fault Joe more for leaving him in. But, as others pointed out, a coach has to rely on his players to tell him or her how they are doing (except for Grady Little - he can burn in Hell).
Couple of things:
-They can beat New York, Indiana, Philadelphia without him. Frankly I'd be a little skeptical about their chances vs Milwaukee (fully healthy) without him; would like the Pacers to close that series out asap.
-This really reduces their margin for injury over the next 2 series. A top 8 of Tatum-Brown-White-Holiday-Horford-Kornet-Hauser-Pritchard is still really good obviously, but if you lose any of that top 5 for a period of time someone is going to get stretched far beyond their comfort zone.
-This is going to put quite the load on an old Horford...I know it's tough in the playoffs but they'll really have to try and spot check minutes for him when they can. More ideal would be this team winning a few consecutive short series for the first time ever to reduce the load on everyone.
-They can beat New York, Indiana, Philadelphia without him. Frankly I'd be a little skeptical about their chances vs Milwaukee (fully healthy) without him; would like the Pacers to close that series out asap.
-This really reduces their margin for injury over the next 2 series. A top 8 of Tatum-Brown-White-Holiday-Horford-Kornet-Hauser-Pritchard is still really good obviously, but if you lose any of that top 5 for a period of time someone is going to get stretched far beyond their comfort zone.
-This is going to put quite the load on an old Horford...I know it's tough in the playoffs but they'll really have to try and spot check minutes for him when they can. More ideal would be this team winning a few consecutive short series for the first time ever to reduce the load on everyone.
Everyone has been pointing to GA's injury for guidance here, but we have homegrown Luke Kornet who also had a recent calf strain and only missed two games (and who also had calf strain issues earlier in the season, IRC). Seems possible that KP will indeed be all good by the next series, but we'll see.
People fault people for things they have no control over all the time and especially here. Your team lost? Somebody definitely messed up and we will get to the bottom of it!
The major issue with Porzingis is that he tends to get injured. Again this is why he was available to Boston. If that's the case, why would anyone be accountable for an injury? I don't think KP likes missing games nor do I think Mazzulla wants to lose him.
Unless you are of the mind that you play to prevent injury or you expect your coaches to see the future, I am not sure the "gotta hold someone accountable even though they don't account to me" crowd gets any satisfaction in this instance.
This team should be fine without KP in the EC.
The only thing that has me concerned would be if CJM started running Horford out there for 36++ mpg in playoff intensity and didn't incorporate X & Kornet more.
Tillman is a very high-level defender (maybe their best perimeter-defending 5?). Joe should lean into building a 10-minute lineup around X.
I would be shocked if Horford played any less than heavy starters minutes without KP around in the playoffs if all is going well. He was playing mid-30’s, sometimes even high-30’s in regular season games that KP missed. The times he was around 30 was when we won in a blowout and he didn’t return for his 4Q rotation.
Kornet actually missed G1 of this series with what was listed as a calf.
That's what I mean - Kornet was out G1 and G2 with the "calf strain" and played G3 and was fine. So hopefully KP is on a similar track, close it out tonight, couple more days off, maybe miss G1 of next round, then good.
New York is scarier than a full health Bucks without KP. The issue is going to be with any team that can stall out the offense. Orlando is the scariest team left.
Edit - The biggest threat to the Celtics in the east is Brown and Tatum. If they keep not showing up to games someone is going to take them like the Heat did last year.
That would be a great outcome, though probably a bit optimistic seeing the reports and the way KP reacted immediately to the injury.
Someone posted some data above about 17 days as the average for NBA players, but that probably skews low compared to a group of only players with a real MRI positive injury. People will list calf or soleus strain as a bit of a catch all for soreness in that area even if sometimes it's not really a true injury. Most of those players returning in less than a week didn't have much of a real strain yet get included in data sets like that (people just search for key words and don't know the individual circumstances).
For guys like Kornet that missed a few days, he probably felt a little grab and they were being cautious. I bet there was either a normal or near normal MRI (if imaging was done). Unfortunately from reading the tea leaves on KP, it seems like his is a bit more serious than that.