Well, now I know what a flamingo would like it if it played basketball.
Green Zinger Tea - Kristaps Porziņģis 2023-24
- Thread starter InstaFace
- Start date
Toward the end of the shooting clip, he's pushing off his right ankle / leg too, it's not just the left / one-legged shots. So that obviously looks real good - if the injury were more serious he wouldn't be out there practicing, and furthermore, he's using the injured calf without hesitation. Looks like he really could return to the court any day now, and they're just being cautious (and might remain quite cautious if the series remains positive for us).
We are seeing two totally different things in that video. I see a player who is being very delicate on a bum, recovering leg.
Here's another video from that same workout, and he pretty clearly has a limp even when simply walking.
View: https://twitter.com/NoaDalzellNBA/status/1788251996492820641
Yeah. To me it looks like he’s trying not to push off as much as possible.. and walking and shoot around are far cries from full on sprints and jumping using max effort.
Agreed. I don’t see a guy who is anywhere near to returning. Looked to be a little bit of a limp.
And I don't see a guy who has any trouble walking at all. Porzingis is a guy who looks weird when he runs and is fully healthy because he is 7'3". Like, just watch any clip of him running down the court during a fast break -- that is not how most people move in that situation. Which is because everything he has (well, almost) is like a foot longer.
Well know soon enough which highly scientific 10 second video analysis is correct (I hope yours).
Agreed. FWIW, I suspect I am not alone in paying an uncommon amount of attention to how Porzingis walks after every play. I basically spent the entire season paranoid he would injure a leg and, as a result, focused on how he looked after every whistle blew.
Oh, definitely not alone. Just sucks that the thing that we all were worried about happening…happened.
Fwiw, I wasn't worried so much about a calf strain. That can happen to anyone. Knee, Achilles, Jones fractures--that's the type of stuff that I worry about with super tall guys like this. Calfs, hammies, that shit is routine.
I'm no expert on the day-to-day treatment side of things, but I'm not sure what a wrap around the calf would help with. I know they have all kinds of sleeves, just always felt like the benefit of them was kind of made up.
Agree with others looks like he has a bit of a limp, though I'm not sure that alone tells us much. Maybe he is just being cautious on it rather than some true pain or limitation.
That said, I assume he out for this series at least. If it was on the low grade end of things and he doesn't have any setbacks, a return at some point during the ECF is on the table.
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Yeah you (and others) are probably right that he's definitely treating it gingerly, and maybe isn't all that close to returning. I will say I don't see much of a limp, for whatever that's worth.
I was mostly focusing on how, in the second clip from that tweet, the first 40 seconds are him taking one legged shots, without pushing off on his right at all... but the last 20 seconds of it are him taking two legged shots, pushing off with both legs. And I just saw that as a positive - that he's on a court, doing some basketball things, using his hurt leg. Maybe not nearly at game speeds, or ready for practice, but it's not like he has to rest it for another week before he even returns to basketball activities.
And if there's one thing last night underscored, it's how much we need KP back out there. Al Horford is probably overqualified as a 6th man / rotation big, but as a starting playoff starter, he's just giving up too much in too many circumstances. We can probably beat Cleveland as-is, but we're definitely not the death star without Porzingis.
Forsberg with a series of tweets / short videos. Let the Zaprudering begin!
View: https://twitter.com/chrisforsberg_/status/1790033004544295194?s=46
View: https://twitter.com/chrisforsberg_/status/1790033004544295194?s=46
Pushing off with both feet, but definitely trying to land on his left (or gently on both).
Able to push into a guy who's bodied him up on D. Albeit a guy who is a normal-sized human and isn't trying all that hard, rather than an NBA center in the playoffs.
Lateral shuffling for him looks good.
If we lose a second game this series, I bet we see him back the game after that.
Problem I see, though: if opponents know how much he's favoring his right, wouldn't they just load up on his left side and make him go right (e.g. to take a stretched-out layup), assuming that he won't want to land most of his weight on it? The tactical adjustments they can make knowing he's only operating at like 70% seem pretty obvious and significant - he'd have to be much better than this in order to be an upgrade on Kornet, nevermind on Horford.
Able to push into a guy who's bodied him up on D. Albeit a guy who is a normal-sized human and isn't trying all that hard, rather than an NBA center in the playoffs.
Lateral shuffling for him looks good.
If we lose a second game this series, I bet we see him back the game after that.
Problem I see, though: if opponents know how much he's favoring his right, wouldn't they just load up on his left side and make him go right (e.g. to take a stretched-out layup), assuming that he won't want to land most of his weight on it? The tactical adjustments they can make knowing he's only operating at like 70% seem pretty obvious and significant - he'd have to be much better than this in order to be an upgrade on Kornet, nevermind on Horford.
If you look at minutes played from Game 1 of the playoffs to the last game, KP played 34 minutes in game 1 vs Miami. What we saw on Saturday, compared to Game 1 vs Miami, was 7 more minutes for Brown, 4 more for White, 5 more for Jrue, 8 more for Kornet (who missed the Miami game), and 13 for more Horford. Al played 39 minutes in Game 3 vs. Cleveland; I'm happy for now if Porzingis can just shave away about 15 of those minutes. Not so worried about everyone else (for this and the next round).
He's not using his legs when he shoots. He also didn't try anything deep.
Interesting that he doesn't have a wrap on like Murray.
IMO, he's still a ways away and he's not coming back in this series. Shouldn't matter. Keep everything super slow.
Interesting that he doesn't have a wrap on like Murray.
IMO, he's still a ways away and he's not coming back in this series. Shouldn't matter. Keep everything super slow.
Let’s win tonight and then finish them off Mortal Kombat style on Wednesday and remove all temptation to get him back on the court this week.
I’m feeling a little more confident about a potential ECF’s after seeing his progress.
I’m feeling a little more confident about a potential ECF’s after seeing his progress.
Yeah I don’t see how him going through some halfcourt stuff at walk-through speed is an indication that he’s close to ready to sprint and cut at playoff level intensity anytime soon. I’m sticking to my personal timeline of G1 of the NBA Finals for his return.
The Finals don't start for another 24 days (which seems insane)...if they can finish off Cleveland in 5 and let IND-NYK wear each other down, I'd hope he doesn't see the court until June unless hes absolutely 100% to go. Probably impossible to actually know if this is the case, so I'd hope they just lean towards cautiousness.
Woj with a bit of an update - Porzingis looking more likely to return sometime later in the ECF.
@wojespn: ESPN Sources: Boston Celtics center Kristaps Porzingis expected to remain sidelined for the start of the Eastern Conference Finals on Tuesday and Thursday, but there is optimism for a return in the series: https://tinyurl.com/4uvtndpb
@wojespn: ESPN Sources: Boston Celtics center Kristaps Porzingis expected to remain sidelined for the start of the Eastern Conference Finals on Tuesday and Thursday, but there is optimism for a return in the series: https://tinyurl.com/4uvtndpb
That's good. Ideally, even if they can win the ECF without him, he can get some real, intense on-court action before having to dive right into the NBA Finals from zero.
Maybe late ECF if needed, but generally agree. Not surprised by the recent Woj tweet.
If OG comes back sooner than KP that would be a surprise.
Having said that, one reason the data in elite athletes is all over the map with return to play prediction from MRI findings is the amount of subjectivity and circumstance involved.
Important players for important games cause that subjective risk-benefit analysis to change.
Was hoping 3 weeks would be enough, but given the likely quality of opponent it makes sense... but if they fall behind in the ECF I wonder if the equation changes.
Rad, any idea how often Kristaps might be getting MRI’s to see exactly what’s going on? Any one of us schlubs gets an MRI and is placed on a path to health. Is there value to weekly MRI’s? Or more often?
They may follow up if things aren't progressing as they hope, but there isn't a ton of utility to doing a bunch of serial MRIs. I don't see weekly MRIs for muscle strains in the elite athletes I've seen.
There is no magic point in time you are ready to go based on imaging, and the signal abnormalities can persist for 6 weeks or more, longer than you need to be held out of action. Sometimes they would rather not know how it looks, assuming clinically things are on the right path. In a weird way, it can just make things more confusing than anything.
Im sticking to my prediction that we won’t see him until the Celtics lose a second game in a series.
I heard Wyndhorst on ESPN this morning and he noted that despite the Knick’s’ optimism, OG has a track record of slow recovery from injury both in-season and during playoffs.
There was a report a couple of months ago that he wasn't comfortable playing through pain. I'm gonna take the over on recovery time for him, generally.
As long as he's ready, I don't see why Boston would want KP to not see any action before a presumably intense NBA Finals.
It's asking too much for him to just jump into game speed and be productive right away, and you don't have much margin for error then.
It's asking too much for him to just jump into game speed and be productive right away, and you don't have much margin for error then.
Exactly. Even if the Celtics are cruising through the series against the Pacerbockers, I would expect to see Porzingis to start doing limited minutes just to get back up to speed. Besides, if it is the Knicks, the temptation to troll the Knicks fans by having him appear at MSG in the playoffs wearing a Celtics uniform would be irresistible.
Agree with above; BOS will give him game time before Finals.
OG isn’t running yet. He’s still a ways away. He’s also out for G7 already.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5502691/2024/05/18/knicks-pacers-josh-hart-game-6/
If he’s ready but could use more time and the Celtics are in command of the series, I expect him to play in the first potential close out game with a 25 or so minute cap. If he’s ready and it’s a competitive series or we are behind, I expect him to go as soon as he can and potentially without strict minutes restrictions.
I’d be surprised if OG is back at all. He’s a free agent and has made himself a ton of money. He doesn’t seem to like to play through injuries, and I doubt he’d risk a major injury heading into the market.
I never realize how out of service OG has been over the past fout seasons, averaging 32 missed game per season.
Isn’t the caveat that he doesn’t look anywhere close to ready? If we can get that extra week off before The Finals, assuming we advance, they would be much more beneficial than running him out there at less than 100% in games that we don’t need him.
Yes, that's the caveat, but now we haven't seen him in a few days. @radsoxfan doesn't seem particularly surprised that he might be getting close now, so I don't think the reports he's close are total hot air.
I’d just have him replace Kornet’s minutes, assuming Horford is still doing okay.
One thing I’ve always been curious about is how much they can keep up their conditioning in this circumstance. Can he go hard on a bike (or even one legged?) to keep up the conditioning? Use a skierg or something like that?
One thing I’ve always been curious about is how much they can keep up their conditioning in this circumstance. Can he go hard on a bike (or even one legged?) to keep up the conditioning? Use a skierg or something like that?
I (and I'm sure others) have been in this position a lot, needing to train for elite competition in a sport with cardio while hurt. The answer is "you generally can find ways to keep up cardio, but they're annoying af relative to your regular routine."
Variants of pool running work well, but they suck and are really boring. It's also tricky to exactly simulate basketball competition, where you're stressing lots of other muscles.
Obviously KP is paid a lot of money to do things that suck, so you'd hope he'd do it. Usually, however, guys lose something, and you need some short period of time to get the sport-specific cardio back.
That said, he'll presumably have a lower minutes load to start, so it might not be a huge deal.
What is close though? We are in the conference finals and he’s been announced out for the early part of it. So we aren’t even into the “Questionable to force NY/Indy to utilize resources to game plan for him being available” yet and as of a couple days ago he wasn’t even running at half speed. Once we get to questionable that’s when we are a couple games away from what we’re used to seeing.
There are lots a guy can do, but none of it is playing ball and running, so he will not be in very good shape when he returns, but swimming/pool workouts, etc can maintain a base that allows a player to bounce back in a few games
Yeah, the part that doesn't surprise me is that he won't be back for games 1 and 2. Beyond that, that report from Woj and my expectations are a lot fuzzier.
In general, these injuries with somewhat subjective timelines are going to be affected by the player and situation. They might think (just as an example) that coming back for game 3 or 4 would give him a 30% or so re-injury rate, while waiting til the finals gets him down to 10% (kind of baseline post injury).
If the Celtics are down 0-2, or down 3-1, etc the calculus changes. You might take a risk thinking he will "probably" be OK, knowing that a loss knocks you out. But if the Celtics are in control of the series it wouldn't surprise me at all if he waits until the Finals.