I am pointing out the omission. Celtics fans were reprimanded in anticipation of throwing objects at Kyrie prior to a playoff game.
2024 Playoffs Eastern Conference First Round: (3) Milwaukee Bucks vs (6) Indiana Pacers
- Thread starter InstaFace
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What omission? As @BringBackMo said, it was clear the announcers did not see the ball throwing. Who knows what they said after they saw it? For all we know they said that is unacceptable, he needs to be suspended, just like Chuck did. You don't know that there was an omission!
It’s the announcers in his mind.. who had no idea at the time what happened and thought fans were just berating the Bucks for no reason.
I've formed my opinion prior to that one clip. I also don't think the NBA is on an island when it comes to fan interaction. Again, happy to drop this.
Apparently this is Pat Bev's go-to move
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkUp5Bg-KkQ&ab_channel=HouseofHighlights
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkUp5Bg-KkQ&ab_channel=HouseofHighlights
Mostly a good morning - it's Friday and both the Sixers and Bucks were eliminated last night! But still pissed / sad about the B's. At least they get a game 7 opportunity. Have a great day yourself!
This is an honest question: Is it your belief that the announcers and their producers were aware that Beverley had twice whipped the ball at fans, hitting one of them in the face, and having that awareness then said what they said?
A second honest question: If the league and its broadcast partners were intent on whitewashing this incident, then why did the cameras longer on it, making clear to everyone who was watching exactly what happened?
This guy needs to be kicked out of the league. He clearly has anger management problems.
Not being coy, I don't know the answer to either question. I have a hard time believing that moment was missed in real time by everyone with the broadcast team.
My general sense is the media values its relationships with the leagues significantly above the customers. Besides the additional revenue from all of the rights deals, the NFL (and soon the NBA) has been wise to have its product spread out. You get significantly better PR when the broadcaster is your corporate partner. Compare that to MLB who is only brought up when something negative can be kicked around.
I have to really get going. Had not planned on this much back and forth.
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I'll stick up for you in one respect: there are ways in which the NBA does suggest that in person fans' experiences are not a priority for them and they're kinda an afterthought, and moreso than peer leagues. Game times shifted last minute for TV benefit but screwing around 20k fans' schedules. Perhaps-overeager security kicking out fans who haven't crossed a line from ordinary heckling, but it bothered a player so he ruined the guy's night (hi Russ!). Players happy to sit out games on no notice and without an injury, changing teams on a whim rather than just for money (and despite mechanisms to help teams retain players). I'm not sure it all quite rises to the level of contempt that you see, and I don't think the announcers here are a good example of it. But if that's something you've been sensitive to for a while, if you're primed to see it, I can see where the Pat Bev incident fits into the pattern in your eyes.
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To be fair the announcers also had been hearing what the fan was saying to the Bucks all night. We don’t know if it crossed the line however the announcers seem to think it did. Obv you can’t throw a ball at a paying customer but seems like there is more to the story. If the Bucks say they were asking for help all night and security wouldn’t do anything….I want to know what the guy was saying but either way that has to be a suspension.
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I think that Pat Bev is an overrated jerk who should have retired two years ago for ineffectiveness, but some of the pearl clutching here is a bit over the top. A bunch of fans who can afford to sit two rows from the court and decide to heckle the opponents' bench got a ball thrown relatively harmlessly in their direction. Nobody went into the stands. Jeez. He'll serve his 10 games next year if someone is dumb enough to give him a minimum contract and he's desperate enough to take it.
It also requires ignoring all the other players' body language there suggesting that the fan wasn't out of line, and Giannis going over to apologize to the guy later, as mentioned upthread. In other words, you really gotta be looking to blame the fan, facts-in-evidence be damned, in order for that to be your default hot take.
When the Utah fan said some ugly shit, his lifetime ban was announced by the team before the postgame reports even came out. They're not shy about it, when that's the direction an incident went. Here, we have nothing out of Indy that I've seen.
Just read the rest of this thread lol. Yeah, when the announcers go off-script and away from the game it is almost always due to some serious stuff. We are comparing the announcers doing what they never do which is discuss fan behavior to saying the Bucks body languages says one thing while they later said that they asked for help all night. Ok…so we still have a ton of incomplete information except that Bev will get hit with 5-10 games regardless.
All they say is that now isn't a great time to be talking shit to the Bucks bench. They didn't say a word about the rest of the game.
I think you're missing the first throw that connects with a woman's noggin in the row behind the guy who gets hit with the second throw.
I don't think it's pearl clutching to acknowledge that "collateral damage" from incidents like this could be really bad. Those men are surrounded by women who are doing nothing wrong. If a throw at that speed is errant and hits them in the face or, god forbid, they're caught in the middle of a physical altercation... yeah, Pat Bev should probably just ignore the heckler, especially because he is one of the biggest hecklers in the NBA! Like, dude, you can dish but you can't take it? Grow the fuck up, PatBev.
I know you all love your DARKO charts and all but again, there are plenty of minutes given to negative players every year. Bev just played a ton of minutes this year and I would be shocked if that went to zero next year
We do now have a public pseudo-apology out of Beverly. H/T Bleacher report.
View: https://twitter.com/patbev21/status/1786353077752078546
Of course, that's after he said this last night:
View: https://twitter.com/patbev21/status/1786261711600615856
Suggestions that the fan was probably more at fault have a pretty steep hill to climb, I think.
View: https://twitter.com/patbev21/status/1786353077752078546
Of course, that's after he said this last night:
View: https://twitter.com/patbev21/status/1786261711600615856
Suggestions that the fan was probably more at fault have a pretty steep hill to climb, I think.
Fans that cross the line (if that's what happened here) should be removed AND players should refrain from throwing things at them no matter what. I know we all strive for clear answers on fault but really they both need to grow up and act better.
How about the poor woman who could have had her nose broken because PatBev missed his intended target? Dude needs a long suspension. If the other fan was being vulger or racial that needs to be addressed too, but NBA players have gotten soft as puppy poo when it comes to run of the mill heckling from opposing fans. And as said above, it's rich coming from a notorious shit talker like PatBev. Belt to ass, my ass.
I know that you hate DARKO when it dissents from the basketball twitterati groupthink, but I'd love to see any objective assessment of Bev's positive impact to winning since his career died after the 21-22 season.
Sure, guys hang around long after they suck sometimes, and teams pay them. Bev has a name and reputation that is based on stuff from years ago. Maybe he'll be back.
I think that we're reading different posts then. "Veteran player tries to assault a fan", "he is done, and should be", "this guy needs to be kicked out of the league", "poor woman who could have had her nose broken".
The women surprised by the soft toss on the first throw were laughing afterwards. The second throw was comfortably blocked by the instigator.
Dude needs a lengthy suspension, no doubt. I'm not defending him. Personally I hate his game and think that the basketball-loving world would be better off with his poor play safely sequestered in China or Sokovia B or maybe some 3-man pro-am league. And it's bad business for players to angrily interact with the paying customers. But there's some overreaction going on here.
Optically, saying no to the woman and yes to the man is going to leave a mark on his rep, even if the 'subscribe to my pod' is actually the reason.
Pat Bev is a marginal NBA guy at this point, and probably would do well to be kinder to media and fans. But YMMV....
Pat Bev is a marginal NBA guy at this point, and probably would do well to be kinder to media and fans. But YMMV....
Agree to disagree I guess. If he had thrown the ball once, I could get there. He did it twice. With the second throw being much more forceful.
Damn dude I am not saying she's gonna die from it but it doesn't take much to break a nose. So she gets to deal with that because Bev can only make a long range shot 34% of the time?
Might happen. My initial thought was no way, but.... last year 3 players as old and shitty as Bev did get contracts... Jeff Green, Wes Matthews and Garrett Temple. Now, those guys aren't notorious assholes with a likely pending suspension, but... sometimes teams sign very old shitty players despite all reason
After hitting a woman in the face, he double downed by throwing the ball much harder at fans. You're on the wrong side of history here.
Yeah, there is absolutely no overreaction going on here. That second throw was forceful and with purpose and the fact that he couldn’t stop himself in the moment is pretty troubling.
Just curious what the line is? Not snarky at all.
Racist stuff definitely. Bodily harm to a player/team/their families, agreed.
Anything else? Russ has a different line....Pat Bev seems to have a different line (or he would have mentioned Racist stuff/Bodily harm). Seems like this was shit talking. Do we have confirmation it was more?
Is shit talking crossing the line? What constitutes shit talking? How much shit can you talk?
Or is the line simply "the player didnt like it"
There are some no brainer, bad, get kicked out for stuff/comments......then there is.....Pat Bev and the bucks had a bad day and get told about it get kicked out for?
Beyond the obvious mentioned above.....it gets to be a slippery slope. And is it beyond Pet Bev or Draymond or Russ or even Jaylen to "say" he made a racist remark he needs to go? He threatened me he needs to go? He used a homophobic slur he needs to go? I would like to think they wouldnt take that stuff lightly but I also wouldnt think a 6'4 professional athlete would whip a ball at a woman who likely wasnt even the potential problem.
Can fellow spectators be trusted? In the video you see a Bucks Tshirt guy giving the "Get em out" sign. You also see Pacer fans utterly shocked or angry about Pat Bevs actions. Seems like most decent people wouldnt support a fellow fan of your team if they "Crossed the line".
IDK what the answer is. Short of telling fans they can clap and Boo.....and thats it......then your gonna have some real assholes who "Cross the line" and your gonna have some real asshole players who throw tantrums and overreact to nothing burgers.
Racist stuff definitely. Bodily harm to a player/team/their families, agreed.
Anything else? Russ has a different line....Pat Bev seems to have a different line (or he would have mentioned Racist stuff/Bodily harm). Seems like this was shit talking. Do we have confirmation it was more?
Is shit talking crossing the line? What constitutes shit talking? How much shit can you talk?
Or is the line simply "the player didnt like it"
There are some no brainer, bad, get kicked out for stuff/comments......then there is.....Pat Bev and the bucks had a bad day and get told about it get kicked out for?
Beyond the obvious mentioned above.....it gets to be a slippery slope. And is it beyond Pet Bev or Draymond or Russ or even Jaylen to "say" he made a racist remark he needs to go? He threatened me he needs to go? He used a homophobic slur he needs to go? I would like to think they wouldnt take that stuff lightly but I also wouldnt think a 6'4 professional athlete would whip a ball at a woman who likely wasnt even the potential problem.
Can fellow spectators be trusted? In the video you see a Bucks Tshirt guy giving the "Get em out" sign. You also see Pacer fans utterly shocked or angry about Pat Bevs actions. Seems like most decent people wouldnt support a fellow fan of your team if they "Crossed the line".
IDK what the answer is. Short of telling fans they can clap and Boo.....and thats it......then your gonna have some real assholes who "Cross the line" and your gonna have some real asshole players who throw tantrums and overreact to nothing burgers.
This. Its a basic expectation regardless of what mean, hurtful words a fan might use towards Pat Bev.
To me, the most likely thing was he and the fan had been trashtalking all game, he lost the game, the fan basically had the "last word", and the Bev chucked the ball because he didn't have a rebuttal for "loooooser". Hence the general nonchalance of his teammates to the fan, etc and the laughter of other fans because there was no better thing than "sore loser Bev".
I don’t know. There are a lot of gray areas. My recollection is that if you hit a player in the face and steal his hockey stick, you can expect to be body slammed onto a seat in the sixth row and beaten with your shoe.
MIL's DRtg for the series was 119.4. Players who were worse than that:
Lopez: 125.3 (NetRtg = -10.7)
Dame: 124.8 (NetRtg = -13.8)
Crowder: 123.3 (NetRtg = -25.7)
PatBev: 121.6 (NetRtg = -1.5)
Gallinari: 120.3 (NetRtg = +1.8)
Beasley was at 119.4 (NetRtg = -15.7).
Bobby Portis was +7.7 Net and Middleton was +0.9.
Bobby Marks said on Lowe's podcast that teams end realizing that playing the "veteran supporting player" roulette is no way to build a team. The team keeps signing three or four veterans and maybe one hits but the other three are net negatives and then they have to sign 3-4 more veterans and it's super hard to keep trying to build a team like this.
Griffin was right in one respect - trying to developer Jackson and Beauchamp and Green would have been the best way to proceed.
Lopez: 125.3 (NetRtg = -10.7)
Dame: 124.8 (NetRtg = -13.8)
Crowder: 123.3 (NetRtg = -25.7)
PatBev: 121.6 (NetRtg = -1.5)
Gallinari: 120.3 (NetRtg = +1.8)
Beasley was at 119.4 (NetRtg = -15.7).
Bobby Portis was +7.7 Net and Middleton was +0.9.
Bobby Marks said on Lowe's podcast that teams end realizing that playing the "veteran supporting player" roulette is no way to build a team. The team keeps signing three or four veterans and maybe one hits but the other three are net negatives and then they have to sign 3-4 more veterans and it's super hard to keep trying to build a team like this.
Griffin was right in one respect - trying to developer Jackson and Beauchamp and Green would have been the best way to proceed.
I'd argue Griffin was also right that they simply needed to generate more turnovers. They may not have had the people to really do it well in the end, and it may have failed anyway, but moving on from the Bud drop scheme probably was correct given the increasing accuracy and volume of 3pt shooting around the league.
What's really clear as well is that whether or not Griffin was right strategically, he completely failed to build the buy-in you need to coach especially a veteran team. And so he fully deserved to be canned and may struggle to find another gig - it's just hard to succeed without that buy-in and I don't know how the next team gets comfortable he'll do better
What's really clear as well is that whether or not Griffin was right strategically, he completely failed to build the buy-in you need to coach especially a veteran team. And so he fully deserved to be canned and may struggle to find another gig - it's just hard to succeed without that buy-in and I don't know how the next team gets comfortable he'll do better
View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1786448673590624326
Lol. Man, brutal stuff there, can't believe he didn't jump right into the stands with these over the line interactions
Lol. Man, brutal stuff there, can't believe he didn't jump right into the stands with these over the line interactions
