Good decision to stand pat. Let's get Fultz, hopefully a max FA, and then deal 2018 nets for a rental
Also his contract is absurdly valuable in this environment. You basically can't get good players for anything close to what he's getting paid.I think there is great hesitation to move Crowder in a deal. The oldest guy on this team is Gerald freakin' Green. I sense that Crowder has that Brandon Bass vibe in the locker room, will play any position, 40 minutes or 10, and is seen as a valuable bridge between whatever star they were talking about and the rest of the team. So including him in a deal seems really unlikely. And Smart seems like he could be 80% of Fat Lever. I dont see Ainge moving him either. In that way, if some trade partner is looking for good-ish now players, that really only leaves Bradley. I'm not being critical, but I think it limits the team's trading ability.
I don't think it has anything to do with the locker room, it's that he's really good, still improving, exactly what they want in their system and has maybe the best non-rookie scale deal in the entire league. There is plenty of vet leadership in the form of Horford, Bradley, etc. Plus any star that comes in is going to be the guy in that lockerroom anyway.I think there is great hesitation to move Crowder in a deal. The oldest guy on this team is Gerald freakin' Green. I sense that Crowder has that Brandon Bass vibe in the locker room, will play any position, 40 minutes or 10, and is seen as a valuable bridge between whatever star they were talking about and the rest of the team. So including him in a deal seems really unlikely. And Smart seems like he could be 80% of Fat Lever. I dont see Ainge moving him either. In that way, if some trade partner is looking for good-ish now players, that really only leaves Bradley. I'm not being critical, but I think it limits the team's trading ability.
Ainge was ready to mortgage the future for Justise Winslow. Now I feel worse!For anyone upset today, just remember that Michael Jordan turned down the Nets 2017 pick, as well as 3 other first round picks from the Celtics, in order to draft Frank Kaminsky.
Justise was jumping like crazy and playing great DAinge was ready to mortgage the future for Justise Winslow. Now I feel worse!
I was saying that his improvement elsewhere made up for the changes in his shooting. Butler only got better after his second year, even if he turned out not to be a 38% guy from 3.How is it that in one breath his one year shooting percentage isn't salient but in the other his TS% makes him significantly better? What makes up for the difference that isn't represented in FG%? And Brown's BLK% is 1.3 compared to 1.1% for Butler in that year. Is there a number that represents the relationship between blocks and steals on defense?
I think it's possible Brown can be as good as Butler, but it's a longshot I'd say. That's just cause Butler is really good though, not anything against Brown. He's had a very promising rookie year all-in-all, but it hasn't been so good that he's clearly on some kind of star trajectory.Basically, what makes you think Brown can't be as good as Butler besides that obviously Brown has to hit 80% FT to ever make the leap to Butler's level?
I thought the final verdict was that while DA offered a boat load of picks, the Nets pick wasn't one of them. Am I remembering incorrectly?For anyone upset today, just remember that Michael Jordan turned down the Nets 2017 pick, as well as 3 other first round picks from the Celtics, in order to draft Frank Kaminsky.
I think that's a mostly defensible position. Cleveland only lost two games on their way to the NBA finals last year, beat the best regular season team ever, and swept the team that eliminated the Celtics. The Celtics look better this year, but the gap between them was pretty big to start.Brian Scalabrine is saying that the Celtics are two players away from being able to challenge Cleveland, and that people underestimate how large the gap is between the Celtics and the Cavs.
I think it's 2, but not 2 stars. They need 1 star and one more solid big. The hope is that the big is already coming in the form of Zizic to be a poor man's Steven Adams. Horford's addition has been sneaky huge, he makes the offense run so much better.Brian Scalabrine is saying that the Celtics are two players away from being able to challenge Cleveland, and that people underestimate how large the gap is between the Celtics and the Cavs.
This year maybe but the gap is going to continue to narrow. LeBron turns 33 in a December and Kyrie/Love are always injury risks. A core of IT/Butler/Horford/Crowder/Smart/Olynyk/Zizic/Rozier is pretty solid and you still would have had Nets 2018 and the Memphis, Celtics, Clips picks to dangle or use for reinforcements as well as the rights to Yabusele.Brian Scalabrine is saying that the Celtics are two players away from being able to challenge Cleveland, and that people underestimate how large the gap is between the Celtics and the Cavs.
They both could be right. Clearly, the Celtics' future is very bright with all the picks and young talent but there's also a chance that we could miss an opportunity. Love and Kyrie aren't exactly Cal Ripken.I think that Scalabrine was talking about the radio jockeys who are all over Danny for not making a trade, sounding off about how they had a chance to challenge the Cavs this year (if only LeBron would break a leg) and that the Celts were wrong to keep their powder dry for the future when that path might take 3 or 4 years to bear fruit. My take is that it could be a very entertaining 3 or 4 years -- and beyond.
Yeah, the talking heads make it seem like Danny had to cash in all his chips right now, or rebuild and wait 3-4 years for everyone to develop. Obviously that's an oversimplification. We may only have to wait 4 months exactly in fact - June 23rd, the day of the draft. That's when Danny has made his best deals in the past (#5 for Ray which set up the KG domino; KG/PP for 4 Brooklyn picks, etc). The price of Butler/George will be less. The value of the picks will be more solid - we'll know the draft order, and the hype from the scouts and everyone will fall in love with these prospects and pump up those values.I think that Scalabrine was talking about the radio jockeys who are all over Danny for not making a trade, sounding off about how they had a chance to challenge the Cavs this year (if only LeBron would break a leg) and that the Celts were wrong to keep their powder dry for the future when that path might take 3 or 4 years to bear fruit. My take is that it could be a very entertaining 3 or 4 years -- and beyond.
I appreciate the dialogue. Ultimately I agree that Butler's 2nd year is, without question, better than Brown this year. If that difference is a few steals and FT% I'm supremely optimistic, as shooting free throws seems like a skill that should be able to be improved. And Brown is 2 years younger. Lots to look forward to.I was saying that his improvement elsewhere made up for the changes in his shooting. Butler only got better after his second year, even if he turned out not to be a 38% guy from 3.
The difference between TS% and FG% is that TS% include the impact of threes, and free throws.
BPM is the best "all-in-one" box score stat widely available, but it includes more than just STL% and BLK%. As a rule though, steals are more important than blocks.
I think it's possible Brown can be as good as Butler, but it's a longshot I'd say. That's just cause Butler is really good though, not anything against Brown. He's had a very promising rookie year all-in-all, but it hasn't been so good that he's clearly on some kind of star trajectory.
The hype part is important. Until the trading deadline, the hype was all about Butler and George. Around draft day, the hype will be all about these fantastic 18 & 19 year olds. Market values will change.The price of Butler/George will be less. The value of the picks will be more solid - we'll know the draft order, and the hype from the scouts and everyone will fall in love with these prospects and pump up those values.
I was about to question Favors health, then I remembered that we would also have to question Avery's health. I am just not sure that Danny, Brad, and management are too worried about the rebounding that Favors presumably would bring and would far greater value a big to space the floor, like Kelly.In a world where the Cs sign Gordon Hayward this offseason, who says no to a Derrick Favors/Avery Bradley trade?
The Celtics, Favors isn't very good, he's a terrible offensive player and a mediocre rebounder.In a world where the Cs sign Gordon Hayward this offseason, who says no to a Derrick Favors/Avery Bradley trade?
Are we sure the Cs will match any offers on Okynyk? To me he seems like a guy some team like Brooklyn will throw 70 mil over 4 years at, which could leave us quite thin up front since Zeller, Amir and Jerebko are also potentially gone. Part of the appeal of Favors is that he'll have one year left at only 12 mil.I was about to question Favors health, then I remembered that we would also have to question Avery's health. I am just not sure that Danny, Brad, and management are too worried about the rebounding that Favors presumably would bring and would far greater value a big to space the floor, like Kelly.
Sure? Nope not at all. Even if they don't Favors isn't good, I'd rather try and run back Amir on another 1 year deal, or sign a free agent, or just bring over Yabusele with Zizic. Trading Avery for a player who isn't good is just an awful idea.Are we sure the Cs will match any offers on Okynyk? To me he seems like a guy some team like Brooklyn will throw 70 mil over 4 years at, which could leave us quite thin up front since Zeller, Amir and Jerebko are also potentially gone. Part of the appeal of Favors is that he'll have one year left at only 12 mil.
He's still only 25. I wouldn't mind having him on the C's next year but not for AB and not at the expense of maybe being able to sign Hayward, regardless how small that chance is. Plus, I think it is a given Zizic is coming over next year so we may not even need an Amir type anyway.Sure? Nope not at all. Even if they don't Favors isn't good, I'd rather try and run back Amir on another 1 year deal, or sign a free agent, or just bring over Yabusele with Zizic. Trading Avery for a player who isn't good is just an awful idea.
I'd guess it depends how Olynyk finishes the year. He's been playing a bigger part lately and that part could expand even further. You'd like to see him play more minutes but the dude gets into foul trouble a lot. He's also kinda been the same player since he joined the league. If he ends up getting 28-30 minutes the rest of the way, a 14/7/2.5 Olynyk on .550/.400/.700 shooting is going to get paid. He's interesting because part of his results scream exploiting match ups and picking spots, but the reason he only plays 23 minutes a game is fouls.Are we sure the Cs will match any offers on Okynyk? To me he seems like a guy some team like Brooklyn will throw 70 mil over 4 years at, which could leave us quite thin up front since Zeller, Amir and Jerebko are also potentially gone. Part of the appeal of Favors is that he'll have one year left at only 12 mil.
Don't sleep on Ainge trading IT and keeping the other two. In many ways he probably has the best trade value, but is the hardest to build around.I think it's all but a given Avery Bradley is traded this offseason regardless of what happens unless Smart is traded. Marcus Smart is already better and should only get better with age. Rozier isn't nearly as good but next season I doubt the gap is that big. While he isn't the shooter Bradley is, he does some other things better and his shot is still improving. His age 22 season is comparable to AB and AB took the next step forward in his age 23 season. That might be me being slightly high on Rozier and not that high on Avery Bradley though. I think AB's defense is overrated and I think he's closer to a .370 3 point shooter than the .409 he's shooting this year. Rozier is the better passer and rebounder unless you think AB learned how to rebound this offseason and not the system.
Plus if we draft a guard, there's not much need for AB. Hopefully we could get a rim protector for him but gl with that.
You would rather have Amir Johnson than derrick favors? That is absolute insanity talk. Amir is a terrible basketball player and can't be off this team fast enough. Favors is a very solid player, who has had injuries cloud the perception of his skill. There is a question of whether he is too injury prone, same of Bradley. But that deal can't happen until the Hayward situation works itself out. Need max money available for him (obviously).Sure? Nope not at all. Even if they don't Favors isn't good, I'd rather try and run back Amir on another 1 year deal, or sign a free agent, or just bring over Yabusele with Zizic. Trading Avery for a player who isn't good is just an awful idea.
One problem is there will be a riot if Thomas is traded. Most loved Celtic since Bird left outside of Pierce & KG.Don't sleep on Ainge trading IT and keeping the other two. In many ways he probably has the best trade value, but is the hardest to build around.
Yeah I definitely would, especially if I can get Amir for just money and favors would cost me assets, I'd prefer to have better than either, but if those are my choices it's no contest. Favors is a small amount better as a rebounder, he might be a bit better on D, but it's pretty close and Favors is a TERRIBLE offensive player. He's really really bad on that end, and his incompetence makes his team worse whenever he's on the floor. Ideally you replace Amir with Zizc and either bring back Olynyk or add another big.You would rather have Amir Johnson than derrick favors? That is absolute insanity talk. Amir is a terrible basketball player and can't be off this team fast enough. Favors is a very solid player, who has had injuries cloud the perception of his skill. There is a question of whether he is too injury prone, same of Bradley. But that deal can't happen until the Hayward situation works itself out. Need max money available for him (obviously).
I doubt Danny cares, also I doubt it lasts long. As long as the team plays well (also if they trade him they probably do it to bring in a star). The reasonable fans recognize that paying an all offense 5'8" guy who relies on his quickness 35-40M a year well into his 30s is a bad idea. The mouthbreathing contingent will be fine if they win, and honestly... who gives a shit if they're angry on talk radio, the tickets will still sell.One problem is there will be a riot if Thomas is traded. Most loved Celtic since Bird left outside of Pierce & KG.
The Celtics only have to pay Isaiah what the market dictates. Every other team will have the exact same reservations. He's going to be a 29 year-old 5'8 PG when he hits FA. I think the Celtics will be able to retain him cheaper than most expect.I doubt Danny cares, also I doubt it lasts long. As long as the team plays well (also if they trade him they probably do it to bring in a star). The reasonable fans recognize that paying an all offense 5'8" guy who relies on his quickness 35-40M a year well into his 30s is a bad idea. The mouthbreathing contingent will be fine if they win, and honestly... who gives a shit if they're angry on talk radio, the tickets will still sell.
There's always one dumb team that sees POINTS PER GAME! and a GM trying to save his job or an owner asking for a splash. I bet he gets maxed or close to it by someone.The Celtics only have to pay Isaiah what the market dictates. Every other team will have the exact same reservations. He's going to be a 29 year-old 5'8 PG when he hits FA. I think the Celtics will be able to retain him cheaper than most expect.
Then let that team overpay him and have a built in reason why he was not retained. Any well run team knows you won't win with him as the first option, and he really should be the 3rd behind a 2/3 and a 4/5. Would I hate to lose him ? Absolutely, the guy bleeds green and I hope he finishes his career here. But if he chases money over rings, something I actually think he wouldn't do, then thanks for making me feel tallThere's always one dumb team that sees POINTS PER GAME! and a GM trying to save his job or an owner asking for a splash. I bet he gets maxed or close to it by someone.