Current State of the O Line

[brendan f]

Figured this deserved its own thread. After the draft the state of the O line remains uncertain, especially in regards to the tackle position. While there are a fair amount of good options at guard, tackle and especially LT, is still a big question. Do people feel the position has been addressed adequately in free agency and in the draft?

Among tackles still on the roster along with remaining free agent options/potential roster cuts, how do people see things shaking out and what is the team's best course of action in the near and long term?

Current players who have experience at T:
Okorafor
Wallace
Onwenu
C Anderson
V Lowe
T Wheatley Jr.
A Stueber (likely a guard but has played tackle)

 

[Saints Rest]

Best Remaining Offensive Tackle Free Agents, 2024:

• Donovan Smith
• A.J. Jackson (Rams assigned second-round tender)
• David Bakhtiari
• D.J. Humphries
• Andrus Peat
• Mekhi Becton
• Jason Peters
• Charles Leno
• Geron Christian
• Chris Hubbard
• Billy Turner
• Cameron Ervin
• Duane Brown
• Riley Reiff

(Source:)

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

It feels as though the front office is putting a lot of faith in Okorafor's ability to move to the left. It really feels as though there are a lot of eggs in that basket at the moment.

Then again, maybe there aren't. The team has basically declared, without declaring it, that 2024 is a bridge year. Given the cost of LTs, if they have found someone who can stabilize the position, why spend $15 million to fill the spots this year, instead of finding your OT of the future next year when it starts to matter more.

I think the goal this year is probably -- do enough to get the rookie QB some experience and don't get anyone's ribs broken. Judged by that standard, we're probably pretty close to alright. Some depth would be nice. I was sort of hoping that teams using very high draft picks for OTs might free up some competent veterans to trade for.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

The OL looks really bad currently with the potential to be merely below average. If the new coaches can develop some of the young guys, or a scheme change can help them be better, maybe there’s a glimmer of hope.

Im very concerned about D.Andrews who looked shaky and has had some injury/health issues. If he’s in his decline phase, the interior line is in trouble. Perhaps his struggles last year were a result of terrible guard play and a revolving door of bodies next to him but he’s really the only plus pass blocker on the unit. Onwenu is adequate as a pass blocker and very solid otherwise. The rest of the group ranges from bad to worse in pass blocking.

Strange’s injury hasn’t been reported on much that I can find but if he misses camp or starts on PUP it’s another year of mix and matching guys most likely which was one of the catalysts for the dumpster fire we saw last year.

replacing half a season of good Trent Brown and half a season of horrendous Lowe (and co.) with a merely below average Okorafor probably is a wash over 17 games with a higher floor but much lower ceiling. He’s never played LT in the pros and was not good and benched for attitude issues so not much faith he can be useful.

It was an awful pass blocking unit last year that on paper got worse. Unless some combo of the rookies, Sow/Mafi/Strange can become solid pass blockers, the QB’s are going to be running for their lives again.

That said, it’s entirely possible one or two of the young guys can develop or respond to Scott Peters/AVP’s coaching. But right now it has to be one of the worst groups in the NFL and I don’t see anyone who looks like a good bet to be better than average outside of Onwenu and maybe D.Andrews.

 

[Saints Rest]

Perhaps it is the Dante-lover in me typing, but I think OLiine may be the most coaching-dependent position group in football. Dante could turn mid-round, low-round and no-round guys into the best OLine regularly.

Let's forget that 2022 ever happened. But even last year, with high hopes due to Klemm in place, things went south quickly whether it was entirely about health or perhaps related to unaligned views between Klemm and BOB, but the coaching simply wasn't there last year either.

Hopefully, with 4 years of working together already under theirs belts, the AVP/Peters combo can get some improvements going. It also may mean that the skills that were useful in an OLineman over the last few years, in terms of scheme, may be different going forward, such that some of the players who we felt were below average over the last couple years might fit this new regime better.

 

[Koufax]

The O-line didn't go south last year -- it firmed up decently as the season went on. But the QB and receiver play went south, making the offense offensive. One pundit called them "Average and forgettable", which looks about right to me. Here's the write-up:

1. New England Patriots

Trent Brown, Atonio Mafi, David Andrews, Sidy Sow, Mike Onwenu

Key Injuries: Cole Strange (LG), Riley Reiff (RT), Conor McDermott (G/T)

The Patriots offensive line got off to a rough start thanks to injuries. However, this unit solidified as the season went on. Seven different players have played at least 373 snaps on New England’s offensive line this year. None of them have given up more than four sacks or 29 pressures. New England has been able to rely on strong veteran play from David Andrews (71.4 PFF grade), Mike Onwenu (70.0 PFF grade), and Trent Brown (80.3 PFF grade) while getting a surprising contribution from 2023 fourth-round pick Sidy Sow (four sacks and 22 pressures on 416 pass blocking snaps) in his rookie season.

 

[Cellar-Door]

One thing that will help if they're healthy is new coaching, a ton of trouble last year came on things like stunts and games, especially for Sow and Strange, think that is something that can be cleaned up with another offseason and coaching. Peters has a really good rep. Another big thing is the offense, it certainly looks like AVP plans to run a lot of the O-line friendly stuff he did in CLE in terms of PA, RPOs, etc which can help a lot as will the increased mobility at QB.

I think that if they are healthy... the O-line will pleasantly surprise people. It won't be "good" especially in must-pass downs, but I think it could be decent, with a chance to be above average in the run game.

 

[Cellar-Door]

The O-line didn't go south last year -- it firmed up decently as the season went on. But the QB and receiver play went south, making the offense offensive. One pundit called them "Average and forgettable", which looks about right to me. Here's the write-up:

1. New England Patriots

Trent Brown, Atonio Mafi, David Andrews, Sidy Sow, Mike Onwenu

Key Injuries: Cole Strange (LG), Riley Reiff (RT), Conor McDermott (G/T)

The Patriots offensive line got off to a rough start thanks to injuries. However, this unit solidified as the season went on. Seven different players have played at least 373 snaps on New England’s offensive line this year. None of them have given up more than four sacks or 29 pressures. New England has been able to rely on strong veteran play from David Andrews (71.4 PFF grade), Mike Onwenu (70.0 PFF grade), and Trent Brown (80.3 PFF grade) while getting a surprising contribution from 2023 fourth-round pick Sidy Sow (four sacks and 22 pressures on 416 pass blocking snaps) in his rookie season.

one of the problems last year is that while a number of players had okay years or even good stretches.... they almost never had ALL of those guys playing healthy and well at the same time.

 

[dynomite]

The O-line didn't go south last year -- it firmed up decently as the season went on. But the QB and receiver play went south, making the offense offensive. One pundit called them "Average and forgettable", which looks about right to me. Here's the write-up:

1. New England Patriots

Trent Brown, Atonio Mafi, David Andrews, Sidy Sow, Mike Onwenu

Key Injuries: Cole Strange (LG), Riley Reiff (RT), Conor McDermott (G/T)

The Patriots offensive line got off to a rough start thanks to injuries. However, this unit solidified as the season went on. Seven different players have played at least 373 snaps on New England’s offensive line this year. None of them have given up more than four sacks or 29 pressures. New England has been able to rely on strong veteran play from David Andrews (71.4 PFF grade), Mike Onwenu (70.0 PFF grade), and Trent Brown (80.3 PFF grade) while getting a surprising contribution from 2023 fourth-round pick Sidy Sow (four sacks and 22 pressures on 416 pass blocking snaps) in his rookie season.

I think that if they are healthy... the O-line will pleasantly surprise people. It won't be "good" especially in must-pass downs, but I think it could be decent, with a chance to be above average in the run game.

That was one of the biggest things I noticed in Kurt Warner* and Evan Lazar's film breakdowns of the absolute disaster that was Mac Jones by the end of his time as QB here. Time and again late in the season (against the Giants, notably) you'd see Mac have a totally clean pocket and... do nothing with it, missing open WRs, overthrowing guys, etc. I think there's a core group here that (with health... never a guarantee) could be far superior to the absolute disaster of a group seared into our memories from September 2023.

* Here's the Warner tape. Now, the Giants defense was very, very bad last season, and there's definitely a free rusher on at least one of these plays, but I watched this breakdown and was surprised -- even as an amateur who doesn't totally know what I'm looking at -- by how respectable the line looked.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp7PwhUpNCc

It feels as though the front office is putting a lot of faith in Okorafor's ability to move to the left. It really feels as though there are a lot of eggs in that basket at the moment.

Then again, maybe there aren't. The team has basically declared, without declaring it, that 2024 is a bridge year. Given the cost of LTs, if they have found someone who can stabilize the position, why spend $15 million to fill the spots this year, instead of finding your OT of the future next year when it starts to matter more.

I think the goal this year is probably -- do enough to get the rookie QB some experience and don't get anyone's ribs broken. Judged by that standard, we're probably pretty close to alright. Some depth would be nice. I was sort of hoping that teams using very high draft picks for OTs might free up some competent veterans to trade for.

I basically agree with this. I think everyone is clear that the 2024 Patriots aren't contending. It's hard for me to look at the rest of the AFC East and see the Patriots winning more than 4-6 games: Josh Allen still in his prime on the Bills, Tua and the Greatest Show on Surf Dolphins, and a healthy (?) Rodgers on the Jets.

By contrast, the Patriots have a journeyman veteran caretaker at QB and a deeply limited offense. So I'm fine seeing what we have in Okorafor, Wallace, and Owenu at OT.

And yeah, picking high in the 1st/2nd round of the 2025 draft I'm sure there will be additional opportunities to pick up talented OL prospects.

 

[rodderick]

My belief is people are going to be shocked by how much scheme, coaching and QB play made the line look worse than they were last year.

 

[dynomite]

My belief is people are going to be shocked by how much scheme, coaching and QB play made the line look worse than they were last year.

I think health/stability was at least as big a factor. I mean, the line was decimated by injury before they even broke camp.The team was forced to start a post-cutdown trade guy in Vederian Lowe, who they acquired on August 28th and started at LT on SNF in Week 2 against Miami when he probably was still learning the playbook. You're right that QB play and scheme played a role, I'm sure, but it felt like a perfect storm of injury and poor performance.

Look at this summary:

The Patriots were shorthanded up front from the start, both in terms of top-end talent and depth.

That was especially true at tackle, where the Patriots had to run through multiple options before even getting out of training camp. Neither of their top free agency signings worked out at right tackle. Riley Reiff had to move inside to guard (before missing most of the season due to multiple injuries), and Calvin Anderson was sidelined with an illness. Last year’s starter Conor McDermott missed most of camp due to injury only to be released on an injury settlement before being released a few weeks later. Rookie Sidy Sow, who almost exclusively guard in college, got a shot but didn’t stick.

That left the Patriots turning to post-cutdown trade acquisition Vederian Lowe, who was quickly benched. That move led to one of the few bright spots for the Patriots on the offensive line, with Mike Onwenu moving out from right guard to right tackle. Onwenu showed promise there, which the team should take note of with his expiring contract. It also opened up a chance for Sow to play his natural position, where he showed some promise.

At the other tackle spot, Trent Brown played well for the first month and a half of the season. Then, injuries became a real issue and Brown also seemed to disengage. He spoke critically of the team in the media multiple times late in the year, and ended up being inactive for three of the final four games.

Second-year left guard Cole Strange showed some flashes but injuries were a problem throughout the season. He missed almost all of training camp, then was only a part-time player the first few weeks of the season. That left the Patriots turning to another rookie, Atonio Mafi.

https://985thesportshub.com/listicle/patriots-2023-season-report-card-offense/

 

[SMU_Sox]

I think there is a low-key chance of some disastrous outcomes. As much as we hated Trent Brown he was a good left tackle. Onwenu struggled with speed rushing wide 9s. Going from Brown to Chuks or whoever they go to is going to be bad enough but it is also taking away the ability to give Onwenu support at RT. Meanwhile Sow had his own issues in pass pro, Andrews is older, and Strange has some issues with injuries. It wouldn’t surprise me if this unit had a bottom 3 OL in the league outcome.
I could also see an outcome where they are around league average or just a tick below based on an average to above average year from Andrews, Sow making a leap, Onwenu being an average RT, Strange staying healthy and making a leap, and LT being bad but not a traffic cone.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I spent all last offseason demeaning the OL, complained here and elsewhere throughout FA and the draft that the team did jack shit to address it properly and continued basically all year, carrying over into this offseason.

That said, I'm actually less bearish than most about the OL this year. Feels like while the ceiling has not been raised at all and perhaps was lowered, the floor is higher for the OL itself. The quality of the depth guys is better, so there's less of a dropoff for injury. Also I think that there's an outside chance that Sow is beaten out. Whoever plays LT, I have confidence that his replacing won't be way worse. Competition for jobs might be a real thing also. My only injury fear is at center.

Confident quarterback play and better scheming on the OL could also help. Last year's league worst pass protection and a QB who was seeing ghosts somewhat fed into each other. At least we won't have that.

I do wish we did more though.

 

[Justthetippett]

OL and WR were both huge need areas and it seems they prioritized the latter. It was going to be very difficult to address both in equal measure in one off-season. I think they are betting on coaching up the OL guys a bit more, and it's probably going to be the major priority in next year's draft. I'm fully prepared for a trainwreck this year, which is the main reason I would start Brissett for the first few weeks at least.

 

[Cellar-Door]

OL and WR were both huge need areas and it seems they prioritized the latter. It was going to be very difficult to address both in equal measure in one off-season. I think they are betting on coaching up the OL guys a bit more, and it's probably going to be the major priority in next year's draft. I'm fully prepared for a trainwreck this year, which is the main reason I would start Brissett for the first few weeks at least.

I don't think they really prioritized the latter, I think the latter was where the value lined up. They saw WRs in the 30s as more valuable than OTs (as did the entire league), they took 2 OL before the 2nd WR. If one of the OTs who went in the 1st was available at 34.... maybe they draft differently.

 

[Justthetippett]

I don't think they really prioritized the latter, I think the latter was where the value lined up. They saw WRs in the 30s as more valuable than OTs (as did the entire league), they took 2 OL before the 2nd WR. If one of the OTs who went in the 1st was available at 34.... maybe they draft differently.

That's if they stuck and picked. They could have moved around more if they had their eyes on a particular lineman in rounds 2-4. (They tell us Wallace is that guy but I kind of doubt it.) But I take the point that this is how the board fell generally. More value at WR where they ended up picking.

 

[j44thor]

It won't surprise me to see Andrews retire before the season starts. He has been wearing down the last couple years and is on the last year of his contract with very little guaranteed $$. His dead cap hit is less than 2M so even if he doesn't hang them up I think he is less than 50% chance of making the final roster.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I don't think they really prioritized the latter, I think the latter was where the value lined up. They saw WRs in the 30s as more valuable than OTs (as did the entire league), they took 2 OL before the 2nd WR. If one of the OTs who went in the 1st was available at 34.... maybe they draft differently.

They could have gone with Paul in the second and Roman in the third and prioritized the better OT. I think that you're onto something in that they didn't see those guys as value in those rounds and liked the guys that they took better. We shall see. I loved Paul for pass protect (like really loved), but he appears to be a poor run blocker. They met these guys and scouted them plenty, so whatever.

 

[Cellar-Door]

They could have gone with Paul in the second and Roman in the third and prioritized the better OT. I think that you're onto something in that they didn't see those guys as value in those rounds and liked the guys that they took better. We shall see. I loved Paul for pass protect (like really loved), but he appears to be a poor run blocker. They met these guys and scouted them plenty, so whatever.

They could have, my point was more, I don't think that taking the WR in the 2nd was a case of prioritizing WR over tackle, but rather they (and the league) didn't see any tackle as worthy of an early 2nd. Taking a WR over a OT wasn't about prioritizing one position over the other, but simply a reflection of the tier breaks and horizontal stacking of the relative positions.

 

[Justthetippett]

It won't surprise me to see Andrews retire before the season starts. He has been wearing down the last couple years and is on the last year of his contract with very little guaranteed $$. His dead cap hit is less than 2M so even if he doesn't hang them up I think he is less than 50% chance of making the final roster.

Me neither. This guy has put his body through a lot. Not sure he needs another 4-13 season. He's been a really good player, obviously far exceeding expectations. That would be a big loss for Maye though. An experienced guy like that setting protections and teaching him the ropes would be valuable.

 

[BigJimEd]

Pats could have been more aggressive in addressing the OL and WR pre-draft.
Although to be fair, there was not a lot of quality LT available.

 

[sezwho]

Pats could have been more aggressive in addressing the OL and WR pre-draft.
Although to be fair, there was not a lot of quality LT available.

We’ll see how the protection comes together, but the bolded is a reason to be more aggressive.

There’s a lot of pressure on the coaching and development side.

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

I

I think health/stability was at least as big a factor. I mean, the line was decimated by injury before they even broke camp.The team was forced to start a post-cutdown trade guy in Vederian Lowe, who they acquired on August 28th and started at LT on SNF in Week 2 against Miami when he probably was still learning the playbook. You're right that QB play and scheme played a role, I'm sure, but it felt like a perfect storm of injury and poor performance.

Look at this summary:



https://985thesportshub.com/listicle/patriots-2023-season-report-card-offense/

The guys they drafted were very durable guys who played in arguably the two most physical Power 5 conferences. I’m guessing that they view these two as floor-raisers, who can get on the field consistently (and stay there), even if they dont have top-end talent. Someone (Tom E. Curran?) noted during Strange’s rookie season that he was having real difficulty coping with the physicality of NFL defenders, and it seems like they wanted to avoid that problem this time around.

I‘m way down on the offensive line. I know the QBs were a huge part of the problem, but I don’t think the line was even average last year, and Brown leaving is a net loss. Individual talent on the line doesn’t matter-it is one of those position groups where the play is only as good as the weakest link, and the back end of the roster for the Pats’ OL is pretty bad (both in terms of talent and availability). I thought they should have drafted a true C, someone to pair with Maye, to learn from Andrews (if he’s there, which I really hope he is) and to work with Maye (and hopefully get comfortable with Maye and vice versa) going forward. I’d like to see them sign one of those veteran tackles from SR’s list (Becton signed with Philly). This year, OL are like starting pitchers-you can’t have too many.

 

[macal]

It won't surprise me to see Andrews retire before the season starts. He has been wearing down the last couple years and is on the last year of his contract with very little guaranteed $$. His dead cap hit is less than 2M so even if he doesn't hang them up I think he is less than 50% chance of making the final roster.

While I'm not qualified to give an opinion on his current effectiveness as an NFL Center, I don't think the "Wearing Down" part is correct. In 2021, he played 17 games (All games, plus postseason). In 2022, he played 14 games. He missed 3 games to an injury that wasn't fully disclosed, but seemed to be a one off, easy to recover from, injury. In 2023, he played all 17 games, so obviously no re-injury or lingering issue from 2022.

 

[ManhattanRedSox]

I"m down on the O line as well. If we take the coaches at their word, and the best QB plays, and Maye >>> Brissett then I worry Maye will rush his reads, get happy feet and overall bad habits while running for his life. If you have the cap space (and the Pats do), then why not spend it this year at least to get a guy better than a reserve from PIT to protect that side?

 

[j44thor]

While I'm not qualified to give an opinion on his current effectiveness as an NFL Center, I don't think the "Wearing Down" part is correct. In 2021, he played 17 games (All games, plus postseason). In 2022, he played 14 games. He missed 3 games to an injury that wasn't fully disclosed, but seemed to be a one off, easy to recover from, injury. In 2023, he played all 17 games, so obviously no re-injury or lingering issue from 2022.

I meant it more in the sense that he is getting worn down both physically and mentally. He also has multiple rings so has less to play for than most at this point in his career. He has remained effective as a player but much like Slater I'm just not sure how much more he wants to keep going.

This is what he said at the end of the season.

“I think I still got something in the tank, but we’ll see," Andrews said following the loss when asked about retirement. "I’m tired, I’m sore. It’s been a long year. I’m going to go home, go back to Georgia. I’m going to sit on my tractor with my son, take him deer hunting, and then we’ll get back to work and see where it goes from there.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-david-andrews-mulling-retirement-new-york-jets-loss
He appears to be leaning towards playing in 24 but far from definite.

 

[dynomite]

We’ll see how the protection comes together, but the bolded is a reason to be more aggressive.

There’s a lot of pressure on the coaching and development side.

But how much pressure is there to find the LT right now, really? There was a lot of pressure to find a long-term answer at QB, and they took their shot at #3. If Maye is expected to start right away, I agree there would be pressure to protect that investment immediately. But if the point is to basically red shirt Maye this year and see what we can develop what we have elsewhere, the team is going to have many more chances to find a long-term LT -- through free agency, the 2025 draft, or a trade.

I think there is a low-key chance of some disastrous outcomes. As much as we hated Trent Brown he was a good left tackle. Onwenu struggled with speed rushing wide 9s. Going from Brown to Chuks or whoever they go to is going to be bad enough but it is also taking away the ability to give Onwenu support at RT. Meanwhile Sow had his own issues in pass pro, Andrews is older, and Strange has some issues with injuries. It wouldn’t surprise me if this unit had a bottom 3 OL in the league outcome.
I could also see an outcome where they are around league average or just a tick below based on an average to above average year from Andrews, Sow making a leap, Onwenu being an average RT, Strange staying healthy and making a leap, and LT being bad but not a traffic cone.

This is a reasonable opinion. And part of why I want Maye to redshirt. The line (like the rest of the offense) seems to be in transition, and we'll have cap room and (presumably) more good draft capital to spend on the position next year.

I thought they should have drafted a true C, someone to pair with Maye, to learn from Andrews (if he’s there, which I really hope he is) and to work with Maye (and hopefully get comfortable with Maye and vice versa) going forward.

https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-david-andrews-mulling-retirement-new-york-jets-loss
[Andrews] appears to be leaning towards playing in 24 but far from definite.

On this it feels like the Pats took a shot to have an Andrews transition plan -- they signed Charles Turner III as a UDFA, whose nutshell prospect profile is basically "David Andrews 2.0" right?

I'm not talking about their actual play styles, just the summary of their profiles. They both started at Center in the SEC, face questions about whether they have the play strength and talent to make it in the NFL, and went undrafted.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/charles-turner-iii/32005455-5276-3289-1f99-181f98c5d31e

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/david-andrews/3200414e-4465-2945-5c46-ad9c6f0fca0d

 

[Sox Pride]

Meh - To me it feels like the OL worked itself out eventually last year - where early we were bad but
Brown Mafi Andrews Sow Onwenu was a decent (not great) line.
Add in some depth with Strange/Okorafor Wallace/Robinson and it really seems like the only hole is LT.
I think the plan is to try Wallace and Okorafor at LT and see what works.

It wouldn't surprise me if they try out Strange/Robinson at C

It also wouldn't surprise me if their first round pick next year is a LT

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

…



On this it feels like the Pats took a shot to have an Andrews transition plan -- they signed Charles Turner III as a UDFA, whose nutshell prospect profile is basically "David Andrews 2.0" right?

I'm not talking about their actual play styles, just the summary of their profiles. They both started at Center in the SEC, face questions about whether they have the play strength and talent to make it in the NFL, and went undrafted.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/charles-turner-iii/32005455-5276-3289-1f99-181f98c5d31e

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/david-andrews/3200414e-4465-2945-5c46-ad9c6f0fca0d

I missed that. I think that’s a good signing. That LSU line was crazy good-both tackles are probably round 1 picks next year and one of the guards will probably get drafted too.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

If David Andrews were to out-of-the-blue RETIRE after the Patriots just went through a draft where they could have looked for a center to replace him, I'd be shocked. He strikes me as the kind of guy, the kind of teammate, the kind of LEADER, who would never do that to the team unless it were unavoidable - i.e., health-related.

 

[Cellar-Door]

If David Andrews were to out-of-the-blue RETIRE after the Patriots just went through a draft where they could have looked for a center to replace him, I'd be shocked. He strikes me as the kind of guy, the kind of teammate, the kind of LEADER, who would never do that to the team unless it were unavoidable - i.e., health-related.

They added a C last year, and added a G who can probably play center this year, as well as having Strange who played some C in college and I know played C in the Senior Bowl.

If Andrews gets to camp and decides he can't go, they have plenty of options. Not sure anyone in this draft would have made sense over what they have/got, JPJ went early (also some alleged character issues had him off boards), Frazier went 51.... only guy they might have grabbed was the Georgia C, but... not a huge concern, OT was a more pressing need

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Am I the only one here who thinks DAVID ANDREWS wouldn't consider it pretty lame and irresponsible to not give his friend and first-year HC a little heads-up that he's going to suddenly retire? Now?

edit typos and grammar

 

[Commander Shears]

Am I the only one here who thinks DAVID ANDREWS wouldn't consider it pretty lame and irresponsible to not give his friend and first-year HC a little heads-up that he's going to suddenly retire? Now?

edit typos and grammar

Lots of players report to camp with the intent of playing, only to realize that they just don’t have it in them physically and/or mentally anymore.

I’m not predicting a retirement but he’s certainly at the age and mileage where it shouldn’t shock anyone. The fact that his team has taken to losing constantly probably doesn’t help either.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Am I the only one here who thinks DAVID ANDREWS wouldn't consider it pretty lame and irresponsible to not give his friend and first-year HC a little heads-up that he's going to suddenly retire? Now?

edit typos and grammar

He might already have? Or at least discussed the possibility. Guys with his years in and injury concerns come to camp and can't go all the time. I don't think he'll just next week say yeah I'm retiring, but if he starts ramping up, and/or comes in to camp and decides he just can't play at the level he needs/wants to he may hang it up.... and the Patriots have been preparing for that possibility for more than a year. They drafted a 1 for 1 replacement last year and built out the line with a bunch of center/guard flexible players.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Boy, if we're hoping Jake Andrews is ready to step in for David Andrews, I think we're kidding ourselves. He was...eh at best, no?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Boy, if we're hoping Jake Andrews is ready to step in for David Andrews, I think we're kidding ourselves. He was...eh at best, no?

meh, who knows. It's less hoping than, we have guys, whether that is Jake, or Strange, etc. Centers are weird anyway, you usually don't spend big money on one, and some guys are just much better at it than they are at guard.

 

[Rico Guapo]

Boy, if we're hoping Jake Andrews is ready to step in for David Andrews, I think we're kidding ourselves. He was...eh at best, no?

I thought he looked ok in limited action, I believe at G last year, only 70 snaps though so we really have no idea.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I thought he looked ok in limited action, I believe at G last year, only 70 snaps though so we really have no idea.

also worth noting we've had pretty close to 20 years of good C play out of UFDA and late round picks just plug and playing as rookies or 2nd year guys, they have made plenty of investment in C to feel pretty good if Andrews retired.

 

[SoxinSeattle]

If David Andrews were to out-of-the-blue RETIRE after the Patriots just went through a draft where they could have looked for a center to replace him, I'd be shocked. He strikes me as the kind of guy, the kind of teammate, the kind of LEADER, who would never do that to the team unless it were unavoidable - i.e., health-related.

Maye said he talked to Andrews on the phone when flying to Foxboro after the draft. I'd guess he intends to play.

 

[dynomite]

Maye said he talked to Andrews on the phone when flying to Foxboro after the draft. I'd guess he intends to play.

I think that’s right.

And also, as far as “being a good teammate” or leader or whatever, let’s remember Andrews had a serious blood clot condition in 2019 that cost him the season. Thankfully he recovered fine, but while I’m not a doctor my understanding is that a recurrence is possible.

“I can go about living my normal life and the recurrence thing is something that unfortunately you can’t really pin down,” Andrews said. “I’m just gonna keep going about my life and keep playing this game and doing what I can to stay as healthy as I can.”

https://apnews.com/article/0939c78b25a9d36fd08a6ec391ebe73d

https://985thesportshub.com/2020/04/01/david-andrews-blood-clots-patriots-center-speaks/

 

[lexrageorge]

Enough with this "leadership" nonsense. David Andrews has earned the right to make his own decision on his own terms. Nobody should have a problem with him deciding to prioritize his own health over the team's roster composition if he's forced to make that choice. Not his problem that Wolf passed on drafting an LT in the 2nd round.

 

[BigJimEd]

We are discussing the possibility of Andrews' retirement but yet the Patriots organization would be blindsided. And I thought I was a little down on the front office.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

The one thing I'm confident in is that the guys currently rostered are going to play their asses off every Sunday. Yes Trent Brown was good but only when he wanted to be. Been his problem his whole career. He doesn't love the game and he shows up when he wants. The guy was a malcontent and a toxic presence in the locker room. The other thing that stood out to me in how the Pats drafted this year. Huge character guys. All of these guys have the reputation of playing hard and being good teammates.

The fact they drafted Wallace in the 3rd says a lot. If they think he can play the left side then that gets me intrigued. Theres a reason Fisher, Rosengarten and Wallace all went earlier than expected.

Add in some TEs that can block and a possible FB and the pass protection can take a big step. I am leery though that for some of these guys it will be their third coach in as many years. This grouping is going to make or break the offense this year.

 

[Rico Guapo]

The one thing I'm confident in is that the guys currently rostered are going to play their asses off every Sunday. Yes Trent Brown was good but only when he wanted to be. Been his problem his whole career. He doesn't love the game and he shows up when he wants. The guy was a malcontent and a toxic presence in the locker room. The other thing that stood out to me in how the Pats drafted this year. Huge character guys. All of these guys have the reputation of playing hard and being good teammates.

The fact they drafted Wallace in the 3rd says a lot. If they think he can play the left side then that gets me intrigued. Theres a reason Fisher, Rosengarten and Wallace all went earlier than expected.

Add in some TEs that can block and a possible FB and the pass protection can take a big step. I am leery though that for some of these guys it will be their third coach in as many years. This grouping is going to make or break the offense this year.

Who is the possible FB? If you're referencing Bell I don't think he's going to be utilized as a traditional FB much, blocking is not his calling card, could see him in a hybrid TE/FB role though.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Who is the possible FB? If you're referencing Bell I don't think he's going to be utilized as a traditional FB much, blocking is not his calling card, could see him in a hybrid TE/FB role though.

Might not be his calling card now but its something that can be taught. I'm trying to will it into fruition.

 

[Cellar-Door]

So Calvin Anderson opened up about the illness that ruined his season last year....
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/07/sports/calvin-anderson-patriots-malaria/

Malaria that supposedly almost killed him.

 

[chilidawg]

Anderson, Okorafor, and Wallace, I guess we're hoping something good comes out of that mix at LT.

 

[dynomite]

So Calvin Anderson opened up about the illness that ruined his season last year....
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/07/sports/calvin-anderson-patriots-malaria/

Malaria that supposedly almost killed him.

Whoa. That's no joke. When I went to Nigeria for work with the State Department in 2022 I felt like a pushpin voodoo doll I got so many shots. And I took those malaria pills despite warnings that I would have terrible dreams and lathered myself with that terrible DEET cream. Felt a bit excessive at the time, but reading this makes me grateful they were so aggressive with me about it.

Sounds terrifying. Glad to hear it sounds like he's fully recovered.

 

[NextBigThing8184]

also worth noting we've had pretty close to 20 years of good C play out of UFDA and late round picks just plug and playing as rookies or 2nd year guys, they have made plenty of investment in C to feel pretty good if Andrews retired.

Yeah but Scarnecchia isn’t walking through that door anytime soon. The development of young OL the last few years has been underwhelming at best.

 

[Norm loves Vera]

I spent the last hour almost looking up new OL coach Scott Peters. He is one smart dude who knows his craft and is scientific in his approach. I am optimistic our OL will out perform most of our expectations.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwFHQsqCfKo


Collection of videos from a company he founded Tip of the Spear https://tipofthespearfootball.com/meet-our-team/