Tom Brady is retired
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
George W Bush was president for one of those. That just feels like an eternity ago.
Now there's another discussion on Twitter (as you can tell, I'm kind of actually doing Twitter now a little, and hoo-boy I'm seeing some things...LOL) comparing Brady to Mahomes and talking about which guy has basically won with less. So now with that said, here's each group of skill players Brady has played with for each of his Patriots runs to at least the AFCCG.
2001 - won SB
RB - Smith, Faulk, Redmond, Edwards
WR - Brown, Patten, Johnson
TE - Wiggins, Rutledge
2003 - won SB
RB - Smith, Faulk, Centers, Pass
WR - Brown, Patten, Branch, Givens
TE - Fauria, Graham
2004 - won SB
RB - Dillon, Faulk, Pass
WR - Brown, Givens, Branch, Patten
TE - Fauria, Graham
2006 - lost in AFCCG
RB - Dillon, Maroney, Faulk
WR - Brown, Caldwell, Gabriel, Jackson
TE - Watson, Graham
2007 - lost in SB
RB - Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Evans
WR - Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Gaffney
TE - Watson, K Brady
2011 - lost in SB
RB - Green-Ellis, Ridley, Woodhead
WR - Welker, Branch, Johnson
TE - Gronk, Hernandez
2012 - lost in AFCCG
RB - Ridley, Woodhead, Vereen, Bolden
WR - Welker, Lloyd, Edelman, Branch
TE - Gronk, Hernandez, Hoomanawanui
2013 - lost in AFCCG
RB - Ridley, Blount, Bolden, Vereen
WR - Edelman, Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins
TE - Gronk, Hoomanawanui
2014 - won SB
RB - Blount, Vereen, Bolden, Gray
WR - Edelman, Amendola, LaFell
TE - Gronk, Wright
2015 - lost in AFCCG
RB - Blount, Bolden, Lewis, White
WR - Edelman, Amendola, LaFell, Dobson, Martin
TE - Gronk, Chandler
2016 - won SB
RB - Blount, Lewis, White, Bolden
WR - Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, Mitchell
TE - Gronk (partial season), Bennett, Lengel
2017 - lost in SB
RB - Lewis, Burkhead, White, Bolden, Gillislee
WR - Cooks, Amendola, Hogan, Dorsett
TE - Gronk, Allen
2018 - won SB
RB - Michel, White, Burkhead
WR - Edelman, Patterson, Hogan, Dorsett, Gordon
TE - Gronk, Allen
Of all these players, here's how I'd put them in tiers:
NFL elite: Gronk, Moss, Welker
NFL star: Edelman, Dillon, Hernandez (-sigh-)
Solid player: Blount, A. Smith, Cooks, Amendola, Brown (great Patriot and love him, but if we're honest, tons of WRs better than him in the league), Bennett, White, Faulk, Branch, Givens, Watson
JAGs: Patten, Dorsett, Hogan, Gordon (when with NE, anyway...had much more talent than that earlier in his career), Burkhead, Lewis, Vereen, Ridley, Woodhead, Stallworth, Gaffney, Graham, Centers
Not very good in the grand scheme of things: Allen, Chandler, Dobson, Martin, Gillislee, Bolden, Gray, Thompkins, Mitchell, Hoo-man, Wright, Gabriel, Jackson, Pass, Redmond, Lengel
I'm sure we can quibble with some of that. The point is this: Over a 20 year period, Brady played with shockingly few elite offensive skill position players. Definitely some solid guys there, but not a lot of stars. And three of the BEST skill guys he ever played with, he didn't win a SB with (Moss, Welker, Hernandez).
He ended up taking a lot of meh players very deep into the playoffs. Remarkable.
2001 - won SB
RB - Smith, Faulk, Redmond, Edwards
WR - Brown, Patten, Johnson
TE - Wiggins, Rutledge
2003 - won SB
RB - Smith, Faulk, Centers, Pass
WR - Brown, Patten, Branch, Givens
TE - Fauria, Graham
2004 - won SB
RB - Dillon, Faulk, Pass
WR - Brown, Givens, Branch, Patten
TE - Fauria, Graham
2006 - lost in AFCCG
RB - Dillon, Maroney, Faulk
WR - Brown, Caldwell, Gabriel, Jackson
TE - Watson, Graham
2007 - lost in SB
RB - Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Evans
WR - Moss, Welker, Stallworth, Gaffney
TE - Watson, K Brady
2011 - lost in SB
RB - Green-Ellis, Ridley, Woodhead
WR - Welker, Branch, Johnson
TE - Gronk, Hernandez
2012 - lost in AFCCG
RB - Ridley, Woodhead, Vereen, Bolden
WR - Welker, Lloyd, Edelman, Branch
TE - Gronk, Hernandez, Hoomanawanui
2013 - lost in AFCCG
RB - Ridley, Blount, Bolden, Vereen
WR - Edelman, Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins
TE - Gronk, Hoomanawanui
2014 - won SB
RB - Blount, Vereen, Bolden, Gray
WR - Edelman, Amendola, LaFell
TE - Gronk, Wright
2015 - lost in AFCCG
RB - Blount, Bolden, Lewis, White
WR - Edelman, Amendola, LaFell, Dobson, Martin
TE - Gronk, Chandler
2016 - won SB
RB - Blount, Lewis, White, Bolden
WR - Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, Mitchell
TE - Gronk (partial season), Bennett, Lengel
2017 - lost in SB
RB - Lewis, Burkhead, White, Bolden, Gillislee
WR - Cooks, Amendola, Hogan, Dorsett
TE - Gronk, Allen
2018 - won SB
RB - Michel, White, Burkhead
WR - Edelman, Patterson, Hogan, Dorsett, Gordon
TE - Gronk, Allen
Of all these players, here's how I'd put them in tiers:
NFL elite: Gronk, Moss, Welker
NFL star: Edelman, Dillon, Hernandez (-sigh-)
Solid player: Blount, A. Smith, Cooks, Amendola, Brown (great Patriot and love him, but if we're honest, tons of WRs better than him in the league), Bennett, White, Faulk, Branch, Givens, Watson
JAGs: Patten, Dorsett, Hogan, Gordon (when with NE, anyway...had much more talent than that earlier in his career), Burkhead, Lewis, Vereen, Ridley, Woodhead, Stallworth, Gaffney, Graham, Centers
Not very good in the grand scheme of things: Allen, Chandler, Dobson, Martin, Gillislee, Bolden, Gray, Thompkins, Mitchell, Hoo-man, Wright, Gabriel, Jackson, Pass, Redmond, Lengel
I'm sure we can quibble with some of that. The point is this: Over a 20 year period, Brady played with shockingly few elite offensive skill position players. Definitely some solid guys there, but not a lot of stars. And three of the BEST skill guys he ever played with, he didn't win a SB with (Moss, Welker, Hernandez).
He ended up taking a lot of meh players very deep into the playoffs. Remarkable.
You really need to stop paying attention to the random twitter/x trolls.
I think Reid was a huge benefit to Mahomes and was key in his development. However at this point, I agree Mahomes would be just fine without him. Reid is still a benefit and one of the best coaches out there but Mahomes would still excel without him. We might see about Kelce sooner rather than later.
Truer words have never been spoken.You really need to stop paying attention to the random twitter/x trolls.
Well there’s no doubt that Mahomes is already an all time great and would be fantastic no matter the coach. And probably no matter the skill guys around him. He’s just that good.
Tom Brady joining Delta Airlines as "strategic advisor"
https://news.delta.com/tom-brady-joins-delta-air-lines-strategic-adviser-first-its-kind-multiyear-partnership
Trolling the good people of Atlanta?
https://news.delta.com/tom-brady-joins-delta-air-lines-strategic-adviser-first-its-kind-multiyear-partnership
Trolling the good people of Atlanta?
He gonna fly commercial?
At least it’ll make the time go by quickly, autographs upon altitude right until descent.
Too much Mahomes talk in the Brady thread
That aside, I have to admit reading all these posts is so much better post-retirement than during the Bucs days.
His body, his choice, but he's going to look exactly like his courtroom sketch rather than Tom Brady by the time he starts broadcasting: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mgsyrhTYHvw
It's insanity to compare Mahomes playmakers during his first 5 years with most of Brady's career, especially 01-06. Anyone who seriously attempts to put them on the same level either started watching football a few years ago, or is just trolling.
That said...if Kelce misses extended time this year, Mahomes' receiving group will be as bad as Brady's ever had. Troy Brown, Julian Edelman, Deion Branch...none of these guys were superstars, but I'd take them over anyone in the Chief's WR or TE room outside of Kelce. This would rival Brady's 2006 group, and is definitely worse than any Brady had from 2007-2022. Even when Gronk and Hernandez missed time in 2012 and 2013, the Pats still had Welker (2012) and Edelman (2013) going up and over 100 catches.
I don’t see it. You named Troy Brown, Julian Edelman and Deion Branch and said none of these guys were superstars? I guess they have this underdog vibe about them?
Kadarius Toney, MVS, Skyy Moore, Rashee Rice, Justin Watson, Justyn Ross, Richie James. Current WR room for the Chiefs. I would take any one of these receivers over Reche Caldwell. I get the point you’re trying to make, and yes KC didn’t go and get anyone significant to add to the receiving corps in the off season but the talent they have for Mahomes to work with is better than what Brady had to throw to in 2006. That was criminal.
Kadarius Toney, MVS, Skyy Moore, Rashee Rice, Justin Watson, Justyn Ross, Richie James. Current WR room for the Chiefs. I would take any one of these receivers over Reche Caldwell. I get the point you’re trying to make, and yes KC didn’t go and get anyone significant to add to the receiving corps in the off season but the talent they have for Mahomes to work with is better than what Brady had to throw to in 2006. That was criminal.
Definitely. KC's WR room is filled with studs who have shown they can perform exceptionally in the NFL. Look at that list, it's a who's who of all pros and perennial all stars.
Well, he's dead so... I'd almost take N'keal Harry over him at this point. Almost.
The point was, as much as Mahomes is getting a little of the “you’re a good QB, make it work” team building that Tom had to deal with when it comes to receivers, it hasn’t been as bad as what Brady had to deal with.
Not sure if this was mentioned anywhere but apparently the Brady halftime ceremony will be broadcast on patriots.com
But it is that bad. That WR corps sucks. Not a single player on the team at the WR spot has ever had even 700 yards in any season in their career. The high for receptions is 42. 6 of the 7 receivers are basically unknown, first or 2nd year players who have never done anything on an NFL field.
It's a garbage group.
We're going to see just how good Mahomes is, having to throw to a very underwhelming set of receivers. And I think what we're going to find is that....
Mahomes is really, really frigging good.
But it's also true that Brady did amazing things with what was, at times, a similarly underwhelming set of receivers. Because he was also really, really frigging good.
Mahomes is really, really frigging good.
But it's also true that Brady did amazing things with what was, at times, a similarly underwhelming set of receivers. Because he was also really, really frigging good.
Any time a QB can buy time in the backfield is time for receivers to become uncovered. And Mahomes is one of the, if not the, best at getting an extra second or two.
KC coaches could be blowing smoke but there seems to be an expectation that Skyy Moore will take a leap in year 2.
The only time we've seen Mahomes struggle is when his Oline falls apart, but the Kelce injury is potentially big. If he's out it could make for a rocky start.
Will be interesting if this continues
View: https://twitter.com/mysportsupdate/status/1699446785838563543?s=46
View: https://twitter.com/mysportsupdate/status/1699446785838563543?s=46
Unproven and garbage are completely different things. You're point is valid. Could just be a product of roster construction? Good QB and TE = no room for a number 1 WR long term? I will say, I'm fairly confident by the end of the year one of the KC receivers will be lauded as a breakout. Just out of sheer volume.
I'm sorry, but odds are Mahomes (or any other QB for that matter) will never be a drop away from making a Super Bowl with this cast of characters like Brady did in 2006. Not to mention throwing 35 TDs to 5 INTs, coming second in the MVP race and winning the Super Bowl with the 2016 crew of Edelman/Amendola/Hogan/Mitchell/Bennett.
Yup. Mahomes is going to throw for 5000 yards one way or another. Kelce will take 1000-1200 of those yards. That’s nearly 3,800 remaining going to WRs and RBs. Someone will emerge. Also possible that KC makes a trade for a guy like Evans, if nobody does. But I wouldn’t be shocked to see a 1,000 yard WR on KC. We just don’t know who.
Will always amaze me that Brady's INT% went DOWN as a 43-45 year-old.
Look at Brady's stats from 40 years old and older:
2017 (40): 66.3%, 4,577 yds, 32 td, 8 int, 102.8 rating, 13-3, lost in SB
2018 (41): 65.8%, 4,355 yds, 29 td, 11 int, 97.7 rating, 11-5, won SB
2019 (42): 60.8%, 4,057 yds, 24 td, 8 int, 88.0 rating, 12-4, lost in WC round
2020 (43): 65.7%, 4,633 yds, 40 td, 12 int, 102.2 rating, 11-5, won SB
2021 (44): 67.5%, 5,316 yds, 43 td, 12 int, 102.1 rating, 13-4, lost in divisional round
2022 (45): 66.8%, 4,694 yds, 25 td, 9 int, 90.7 rating, 8-9, lost in WC round
TOTAL: 65.6%, 27,632 yds, 193 td, 60 int, 97.1 rating, 68-30, 5 trips to the playoffs, 3 trips to SB, 2 SB titles, 3 pro bowls, 1 all-pro, 1 MVP, 2 top-2 MVP
I mean, that's a HOF career right there.... AFTER AGE 40!
2017 (40): 66.3%, 4,577 yds, 32 td, 8 int, 102.8 rating, 13-3, lost in SB
2018 (41): 65.8%, 4,355 yds, 29 td, 11 int, 97.7 rating, 11-5, won SB
2019 (42): 60.8%, 4,057 yds, 24 td, 8 int, 88.0 rating, 12-4, lost in WC round
2020 (43): 65.7%, 4,633 yds, 40 td, 12 int, 102.2 rating, 11-5, won SB
2021 (44): 67.5%, 5,316 yds, 43 td, 12 int, 102.1 rating, 13-4, lost in divisional round
2022 (45): 66.8%, 4,694 yds, 25 td, 9 int, 90.7 rating, 8-9, lost in WC round
TOTAL: 65.6%, 27,632 yds, 193 td, 60 int, 97.1 rating, 68-30, 5 trips to the playoffs, 3 trips to SB, 2 SB titles, 3 pro bowls, 1 all-pro, 1 MVP, 2 top-2 MVP
I mean, that's a HOF career right there.... AFTER AGE 40!
Kurt Warner (two time MVP, hall of famer, deservedly so, in my opinion) had 32,000 yards in his career and 208 touchdowns. Brady is pretty close to that, in his 40s.
It really is something else.
Nick Wright has hated Tom Brady for most of his career, but he summed it up pretty nicely by pointing out that Brady is the only player in history to have had 3 1st ballot HOF careers. This clip is from 2 years ago:
View: https://youtu.be/ySGptBacIrY?si=q71DnDw0Kbr2kwTL
That's exactly right. N'Keal Harry is now garbage. Tyquan Thornton right now is unproven. There's a distinction.
Kadarius Toney was the 20th overall pick 2 years ago, and then suffered a couple tough injuries (and played with Daniel Jones). He then missed 3 games (and parts of others) when he got to KC in the middle of the season last year with injuries, but when Mahomes looked his way, he caught 14 of 17 targets for 171 yards and 2tds, and Mahomes had a passer rating of like 140 when he threw his way. If he stays healthy (big if), Toney can be a player. For my money, if I had to pick which guy I'd want on my roster right now, I'd happily take Toney over Tyquan.
I don't see much distinction personally between a healthy MVS and DeVante Parker, except that MVS is younger. MVS is your prototypical home run hitter. He won't catch a ton of balls, but when he does, they matter. He led the NFL with 20.9ypc 2 years ago.
Justyn Ross is a guy to keep your eye on this season. Dude was an absolute monster early in his career at Clemson. He had 6 catches for 153 yards and a td against Alabama in the National Championship, and likely would have been a early round pick if he doesn't have a major neck/spine fusion thing that caused him to miss his entire junior year. He goes undrafted, and KC signed him last season and then put him on IR for the entire year with a foot injury, but he's been in the organization. He's going to be the first NFL player in history with a congenital fusion in his spine, and there is already talk that if he stays healthy, he could be the NFL Comeback Player of the year. Lot of info here: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/why-didnt-justyn-ross-get-drafted-how-wr-went-from-expected-early-pick-to-chiefs-udfa-signing-to-2023-buzz/
Skyy Moore was a 2nd round pick last year, who flashed at times, but didn't have much opportunity there with a receiver room that had JuJu, MVS, Toney (later on), Kelce and MacKinnon scooping up targets out of the backfield. He's reportedly been a stud in preseason (which I take with a grain of salt), but again, he could be something, the book isn't written yet.
Rashee Rice was a 2nd round pick this year for Andy Reid. If he's garbage, then I suppose we should all just write off Pop Douglas and Boutte right now.
Richie James is the "veteran" of the group, about to play in his 5th season. Originally with San Fran, they waived him after he blew out his knee before the 2021 season, and he missed all of that year. He returned last year with the Giants, and ended up with 57 catches, even though he only started 4 games and only played 46% of the snaps. That's more catches than any wide receiver on the Pats last year, except Jakobi, who isn't on the team anymore. The dude can make plays.
Andy Reid has never been a coach that plays or gives a lot of opportunities to rookie wide receivers. This group is young, but aside from Rice, they aren't rookies, and I have to believe if Reid didn't think they could compete, he wouldn't have let JuJu and MeCole Hardman get away in the offseason.
They very well might be garbage, but we definitely can't say that with any certainty right now.
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For the record, Brady just shouted for all the worl to see that he is "A PATRIOT FOR LIFE." Woody Johnson, keep your meathooks off.
Decent foundation to work with though. Just needs to quicken and shorten it up. Still has too much of that ‘12 year old push from the waist’ to it.
I don’t think he’s divesting out of that stake in the Raiders anytime soon.