Mac Jones and JJ McCarthy have very little in common as prospects. Other than some physical and aesthetic similarities and the fact they both went to big time college programs and had success, I can’t see too much similar in their games
What do you want Pats to do with #3?
- Thread starter BigSoxFan
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I know a few people said they thought he was playing under 200 all year so the delay in measuring was to get up to 210.
The hype machine chasing those clicks on draft QB speculation is just completely out of control at this point. But I guess that is just where we are at following a year where a guy who barely managed to complete 50% of his 393 total passes at the college level goes 4th overall.
This top 3 stuff on JJ is pure fantasy imo. Gun to my head I'd still bet he "falls" to at least 12. With it not being out of the realm of possibility both Denver/Vegas take a pass.
Starting to believe people might be completely misreading Minny's intention behind making that second 1st round trade up. Who could simply have more of an internal "let's try and make the playoffs" GFIN outlook towards 2024 then people want to credit them for after losing Cousins. NFC as a whole is kinda soft. If you believe you can squeeze average QB play from Darnold coming off a good learning experience in SF that probably has a good chance to get them there.
This top 3 stuff on JJ is pure fantasy imo. Gun to my head I'd still bet he "falls" to at least 12. With it not being out of the realm of possibility both Denver/Vegas take a pass.
Starting to believe people might be completely misreading Minny's intention behind making that second 1st round trade up. Who could simply have more of an internal "let's try and make the playoffs" GFIN outlook towards 2024 then people want to credit them for after losing Cousins. NFC as a whole is kinda soft. If you believe you can squeeze average QB play from Darnold coming off a good learning experience in SF that probably has a good chance to get them there.
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I still think if Minny has any intention of trading up for a QB, it's for Maye and not McCarthy and everything else is smoke. Josh McCown, the current QB coach for Minny, was Maye's high school coach. That's the connection that I think would make sense. If they can't get Maye, I don't think Minny is making a move, but I've certainly been wrong before.
Are you talking about McCarthy? ESPN has his 2023 stats as 240/332 = 72.3%.
Maybe I'm missing something.
Nothing in the last month has changed my view that the Pats should take Maye at #3 - if he is there. If Maye goes #2, I'm not sure what I want them to do.
Look at that mock draft in the corner of that screen shot. McCarthy at #3 and then Maye all the way down to #11? Good lord.
How could you project him at five, when the entire draft-evaluating world takes him at 20?
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I think they still take Daniels unless someone (probably either Minn or LV) knocks their socks off with an offer. They can do the trade back, accumulate assets thing next year, combined with, hopefully, a more successful FA approach now that a QB is in place and they are on a more positive trajectory. At least that's where I am settling.
In that case I'd trade it away for a return similar to what the Bears got from Carolina. This assumes that the team was theoretically as shitty as Carolina is and their future draft picks would (likely) be juicy. Theoretically the could do the same with pick 3, but that would just take a lot more dominos to fall.
Under this scenario, I'd definitely trade out, because the presence of just one "top tier" quarterback should enhance the bidding. Then again, McCarthy, Penix and Nixwould be evaluated differently as well.
As Nip alludes to, this really is a litmus test on Daniels. If he's sitting there for the taking, what do you do?
Of course, I say that having seen a mock this morning that has McCarthy going at 2, giving the Patriots s Maye/Daniels decision
Good interview with DJ on the Patriots ... QB choice, trade thoughts (NYG), the WR/LT question, etc
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wlK-LqecH8
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wlK-LqecH8
I don’t know if I’d agree he looked good. Servicable, but his completion percentage the first four weeks were:
week 1: 64
week 2: 60
week 3: 43
week 4: 75 (only 12 attempts, played less than half the game before getting injured while running)
He threw 3 TDs and 1 INT through 3.5 games.
He ran for 4 TDs, but of course his penchant for running (25 carries in just over 3 weeks) is what ended his season.
IMO the jury is still very much out on him. Firstly with how proficient of a passer he is, secondly with how often he’ll end up missing significant time if a large part of his value comes as a runner.
He may be great. I genuinely hope he does end up great, he seems like a great kid in interviews I’ve seen him in. But I’d like to see him 1) make it through a season, and 2) improve on his completion percentage before I’d put him anywhere near the “good” category of NFL QBs.
week 1: 64
week 2: 60
week 3: 43
week 4: 75 (only 12 attempts, played less than half the game before getting injured while running)
He threw 3 TDs and 1 INT through 3.5 games.
He ran for 4 TDs, but of course his penchant for running (25 carries in just over 3 weeks) is what ended his season.
IMO the jury is still very much out on him. Firstly with how proficient of a passer he is, secondly with how often he’ll end up missing significant time if a large part of his value comes as a runner.
He may be great. I genuinely hope he does end up great, he seems like a great kid in interviews I’ve seen him in. But I’d like to see him 1) make it through a season, and 2) improve on his completion percentage before I’d put him anywhere near the “good” category of NFL QBs.
Draft a QB
one poster correctly intimated that no one knows!
Stay at #3 and draft who is left from the consensus top 3 which will be Maye or Daniels
do NOT get cute. This opportunity for even a 25 or 30% chance to get a franchise quarterback rarely happens. Their record next year means nothing.
one poster correctly intimated that no one knows!
Stay at #3 and draft who is left from the consensus top 3 which will be Maye or Daniels
do NOT get cute. This opportunity for even a 25 or 30% chance to get a franchise quarterback rarely happens. Their record next year means nothing.
Can anyone tell me why McCarthy would be a better NFL QB prospect than Maye or Daniels? I really need to be comforted right now.
The best thing I've seen about him is Daniel Jeremiah talking about his third and 7 tape.
I wouldn't necessarily believe all the reporting though.
Pro style offense
Younger
Skill set potentially more likely to translate better to the pros
Intangibles “winner”
Not saying I agree with those but those are generally the reasons
I do think people who have McCarthy over Daniels are more down on Daniels than they are especially high on McCarthy
I think some of it is, before the season many had Daniels below McCarthy, Nix and Penix. Winning the Heisman skyrocketed him up some of the boards but there are likely teams that are still gun shy.
Arguably....
Vs Daniels..... younger, ran a pro offense, more willing to go through progressions, bit better size projection, longer history as a top prospect, "intangibles?" uses the whole field more, better arm.
Vs. Maye.... pro offense, less volatile, arguably better throwing motion and footwork (though still bad), "intangibles"
If Eliot Wolf is actually that high on JJ, whose game tape is not nearly as impressive as the three guys above him, he needs to have his GM (or whatever) card revoked. I choose to hope and pray this is just an example of silly season.
I read somewhere, but now can't find, that JJ had very good numbers for this class when under pressure. I would imagine these guys prioritize that given the speed of the NFL, the relative shitiness of Olines (particularly NE's) and what it says about his ability to handle NFL defenses.
I don't know anymore. I think it's likely everyone is lying but there are probably kernels of truth mixed in here.
Is JJ a comp at all for Aikman coming out? More mobile and smaller, but the accuracy (at least inside the numbers) and clean mechanics...IDK. I know Jeremiah is throwing around Alex Smith comps.
I don't know anymore. I think it's likely everyone is lying but there are probably kernels of truth mixed in here.
Is JJ a comp at all for Aikman coming out? More mobile and smaller, but the accuracy (at least inside the numbers) and clean mechanics...IDK. I know Jeremiah is throwing around Alex Smith comps.
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No campaign for McCarthy is being built on “game tape.” Instead, it’s a combination of pedigree as a five-star recruit, physical tools as measured at the combine, contributions to team success with the national championship , and perceptions of intangibles such as toughness and leadership. McCarthy’s case isn’t just what he has shown you he can do but what he hasn’t shown you he can’t do.
Some tape too, I know people talk about looking at his 3rd and long downs versus other QBs. McCarthy doesn't have huge numbers and he was asked to do very little, but he still has tape to look at, and you can still do some evaluation of things like anticipation, progressions, etc. You just have to recognize the situation vs others.
The only thing that makes me worry a bit they actually like McCarthy is the emphasis on "toughness, leadership" when the coaching staff has been asked about what they look for in a quarterback. Of course, that's also very generic, every team is looking for that at the position, but it does make me believe they'll heavily weigh their perception of the player in meetings into the decision making. And maybe said emphasis is deserved, I think Mac failed in those respects as much or more than he did at the physical side of the game (which, to be fair, was also lacking).
This is a really smart observation. My fear is that both Daniels and Maye have fatal flaws -- not just things they're not great at now, like Daniels throwing over the middle or Maye's trouble with horizontal routes. These are issues that may be corrected over time. But Daniels is thin, and the SEC ain't the NFL. Likewise, Maye's tendency toward hero ball and (at times) recklessness might be, fundamentally, just who he is.
When we watch McCarthy, we're looking at a 20 year old kid. Yes, he has problems, too. But some of these are inferred, i.e., "They didn't ask him to do X, Y, or Z, so therefore he can't." As @pjheff notes, we just haven't seen enough of him to know if he has a fatal flaw ... or what it might be.
He's like 4.5 months younger than Maye. The arguments for McCarthy over Daniels make a lot of sense to me, not sure I 100% agree but I see them. McCarthy vs. Maye.... not as much, I just don't think I see anything on tape from McCarthy to put him over Maye, and Maye has physical advantages, while being basically the same age.
I agree with this. The argument above for McCarthy sounds like “he has more potential because we haven’t seen his weaknesses yet!” But that’s just because we haven’t seen JJ out of his comfort zone. He didn’t have to play hero ball like Maye because his team was better… he was basically irrelevant to their national title, throwing 8-10 passes in their most important games.
I’d rather draft someone like Maye, whose weaknesses I know and can theoretically help him with, than a mystery box like McCarthy who will surprise me with undiscovered weaknesses.
I’m also biased because I think McCarthy is corny and I’m guessing that his NFL teammates will think that as well.
I'm right there with you, hearing this the last few days gaining traction is making me feel a bit nauseous.
If you dont have that feeling for Maye, then you move the pick and gain assets, this is not that hard to figure out Wolf!
Isn’t the caveat to this that it presumes Van Pelt/McAdoo think Maye’s flaws can be fixed?
Well obviously, but the same caveat applies for all of JJs TBD flaws that haven’t been found because he’s been in a system that protected him
This needs to be laminated, handed out, copied, mailed to everyone, etc. 100% correct. The one caveat is that JJM has the height, weight, and youth the Packers trees tend to go for. Also some of the athleticism. He's also a Kubiak/Shanny/McVay kind of system fit. It's just hard for me to swallow that prospect. I think it is more likely lying season.
A lot of QBs get the "tough, leader, would let my daughter date him, all the guys want to be him" stuff. Mac did coming out. Sometimes it is legit. Other times it is horse shit. @Super Nomario would remind you that Jay Cutler was supposed to be captain intangibles coming out.
Me too. With respect to @EL Jeffe who I know likes him, I think ultimately he is an average starter to maybe slightly above average starter in the right system with a lot of support if he hits. He can't hit outside the numbers right now with any sort of consistency. I have cutup after cutup of him sailing balls. I also don't think he sees the field that well minus his first read. In scrambling situations he doesn't spot potential lurkers/robbers. He also has some games where he bails too early. I like JJM as a day 2 prospect or back half of round 1 guy.
Honestly the QB situation at 3 terrifies me this year.
I agree, the Commanders were going to be tough to beat out and we didn't do ourselves any favors against Buffalo, Pittsburgh or Denver.
The longer this goes on, the more the "flaws" are discussed, the less the idea of "just pick who's left over at 3" makes sense to those of us who haven't a clue how to evaluate talent and fit.