I certainly could have added that as a caveat, but in this knowledgeable forum I assumed any discussion of Kobe begins with him as a horribly selfish person.Don't forget the rape. I feel like you've forgotten about the rape.
Yeah the more I learn of Ai after he retired the more I like him. He was ahead of his time and the dribble happy world of today would be even better than he was when he played.I remember reading this year in a SI feature with Allen Iverson and he was talking about how he never could see himself in a Paul Pierce/Vince Carter/Tim Duncan role of being a good role player; and that if he wasn't going to one of the best two or three players on the court he wasn't going to play. I think Kobe had the same kind of attitude only he had the backing of an organization to let the horror show of a aging legend chucking up 30 shots a game manifest itself.
Well, as I said, that is a huge example of the supposed good (but not so good) player in Bledsoe being replaced by someone a lot better. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Hayward's value is vastly overrated to the point where Tatum or Brown could just step in today and make the team better.The 2001 Pats are a notable example.
Yup. A return this season just doesn’t make any sense. An extra 5 months or whatever would do a world of good for someone who suffered a major injury like that. Losing a year of prime Hayward absolutely blows but it’ll be a bump in the road if he is able to come back at 90-95% of what he was combined with quality development from Brown/Tatum.Despite that tweet, agent said it was unlikely he's back this season. I guess it would actually be harder to work him back in this season, assuming the team is playing well by then. Just get better.
I hope the team can take a breath now. I still give them a pass for last night (and again, how fucking stupid to give them a back to back like that, especially with game 2 against team that hadn't played). Hopefully they can catch their breath today, Stevens can work out some rotations, and start off better on Friday.
All things considered, this didn't turn out to be the end of the world for the franchise that we first feared when we saw him lying on the floor with a broken ankle. He'll be back next year, the young guys will progress faster, and the GSW are a lock this year anyway barring injury. And I agree with BigSox - adding another quality pick to the draft would be nice. Especially since there are so many quality bigs coming out, we don't have a real center, and Horford is 31 years old.It also wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world for this team to add a mid-round pick in the 2018 draft. I still expect the Celtics to make the playoffs since the East is so bad but wouldn’t be heartbroken if they didn’t.
Catching up on this thread. The report I heard from someone who was on the Celtics team flight (was driving don't recall who) was that he flew back with the team, went directly to hospital arriving at 3am, with his first consult at 6:30am.You gotta do the math man. He hasn't been at the hospital since last night. He flew out of Cleveland at like 11 pm, probably landing around 1-1:30 am. I think there were pics of him getting to hospital at like 3 am.
They probably had consults all morning.
This is obviously a question for nurses and doctors and I'm neither but thought it was interesting.Stupid question, but why do they do surgery at like 3 in morning (like last night).
I would think that you would want the patient (as well) rested (as can be even if they were going to be under) and the Docs and Nursing staff awake and aware. I realize that some things simply cant wait (life threatening issues.) but when its a "we can do it when convenient over the next day or 2" like in this case why not surgery at 8am or 2pm ?
Or it may be a time when they can get the particular doctor or doctors all together at the same time on relatively short notice. As far as I know, the docs operating on Hayward aren't going to tell their patients already scheduled for surgery that they have to get in line behind the Celtic.This is obviously a question for nurses and doctors and I'm neither but thought it was interesting.
1. Could very well be in the middle of their shift, or when they actually are most awake and aware.
2. I think even hospitals slow down a bit at night because most patients try to sleep, so if this is at all a complicated surgery that requires maximum focus and patience to perform, maybe best to do it when the world is quiet, there's no rush, the mind is clear.
Hayward's surgery wasn't at 3 a.m. Woj tweeted it was successful at 1:00 a.m.; surgery undoubtedly started well before that.Stupid question, but why do they do surgery at like 3 in morning (like last night).
I would think that you would want the patient (as well) rested (as can be even if they were going to be under) and the Docs and Nursing staff awake and aware. I realize that some things simply cant wait (life threatening issues.) but when its a "we can do it when convenient over the next day or 2" like in this case why not surgery at 8am or 2pm ?
Further, with regards to the timeline:Hayward's surgery wasn't at 3 a.m. Woj tweeted it was successful at 1:00 a.m.; surgery undoubtedly started well before that.
This is the ridiculous lack of nuance that is ruining many discussions. I am not comfortable referring to a person, even though he dared to play for a team I hope never wins another game, as deserving a vile term like rapist. I do not know what happened, and I won't even guess. I am not even comfortable calling Harvey Weinstein a rapist, since the evidence is all in the public forum, as overwhelming as it is, against him and Cosby. I have had fiorts hand experience seeing a good man I worked with years destroyed by an allegation that was false. The tag, the accusation is still used as a pronoun for him, when he has been exonerated. Yeah many accusers are ignored, bullied, victimised again, but some, even a tiny percentage are not telling the truth. Duke, Lacrosse. etc.EDIT: Horribly selfish of me to actually use the word rape when talking about a rapist. Please, continue talking about his good qualities.
Thanks Guys, Swore I heard some late night surgery but it does make way more sense that its just a delay in relaying success etc etc.Further, with regards to the timeline:
The Woj tweet would happen after the surgery and the recovery, and after Hayward has had a chance to talk with his family and his care team in the post-op area. The surgery had probably been over at least a couple of hours if not longer by the time Woj got the official word.
Because I didn't see it.Why didn't you call me out when I stuck to basketball and forgot rape, when talking about what a selfish prick Kobe was?
You wrote a post praising THE PERSON. And failed to include the NUANCE / detail that makes THE PERSON not worthy of the praise you gave him.This is the ridiculous lack of nuance that is ruining many discussions.
You are, however, quite comfortable heaping personal praise on a person who is a rapist. Perhaps you should seek better examples?I am not comfortable referring to a person, even though he dared to play for a team I hope never wins another game, as deserving a vile term like rapist.
C'mon. You're a smart guy. You don't know what happened? Seriously?I do not know what happened, and I won't even guess. I am not even comfortable calling Harvey Weinstein a rapist, since the evidence is all in the public forum, as overwhelming as it is, against him and Cosby. I have had fiorts hand experience seeing a good man I worked with years destroyed by an allegation that was false. The tag, the accusation is still used as a pronoun for him, when he has been exonerated. Yeah many accusers are ignored, bullied, victimised again, but some, even a tiny percentage are not telling the truth. Duke, Lacrosse. etc.
Again, you were personally praising a rapist.Jerry Seinefeld said he can look past what Cosby did and enjoy the comedy, Steven Colbert cannot. I can look at Kobe the basketball player, perhaps you cannot. It does not make you morally superior.
I can see you care very much about who is superior and inferior. But you keep using that word and it doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.Again the word is nuance. SO if you want to try and say my discussion of Kobe being great, on basketball board, relating to a message about a basketball player, advice he gave that was basketball related, included somehow an endorsement of rape, you are way off base and trying to put yourself on self righteous pedestal.
thought this was a sports town, smhOr it may be a time when they can get the particular doctor or doctors all together at the same time on relatively short notice. As far as I know, the docs operating on Hayward aren't going to tell their patients already scheduled for surgery that they have to get in line behind the Celtic.
No thanks. I was obviously talking about him as a basketball player, and have zero interest in what you have to say.Because I didn't see it.
Perhaps any further discussion of this should move to PM, as it's pretty far off topic.
Dislocating your ankle and not tearing any ligaments is like saying you were ejected from the car but no windows were broken. You can't dislocate your ankle without tearing some of the ligaments around your ankle, it's not possible.I keep reading this stuff and then think about DRS's bit about ligaments:
Seriously. Anyone claiming that ligaments are intact doesn't understand what ligaments do. I think that they're misspeaking or misheard.Dislocating your ankle and not tearing any ligaments is like saying you were ejected from the car but no windows were broken. You can't dislocate your ankle without tearing some of the ligaments around your ankle, it's not possible.
Certainly some injuries are worse than others, and perhaps there was no additional ligament damage beyond what was expected, and no additional surgical repair was needed. Thats all good news for sure, but it's kinda silly to assume he didn't have any ligament damage at all.
I had a dislocation, not in the ball park of GH, but bad enough. I played a 7 more years, even reached my peak, but just taped it for every practice game, even workouts. I was dealing with trainers who described my ankle as "loose" and the doctor that told me I had possibly severed ligament was dismissed as anti-sports. Anyway in my 30s I was in pain a lot and I finally listened to an ortho he told me it was impossible to dislocate the ankle without wrecking the ligament. I had a reconstruction at age 40, and walked pain free. though my playing, running days are over.Dislocating your ankle and not tearing any ligaments is like saying you were ejected from the car but no windows were broken. You can't dislocate your ankle without tearing some of the ligaments around your ankle, it's not possible.
Certainly some injuries are worse than others, and perhaps there was no additional ligament damage beyond what was expected, and no additional surgical repair was needed. Thats all good news for sure, but it's kinda silly to assume he didn't have any ligament damage at all.
Brad clarified that yesterday:Brad already slipped about when he expects Gordon back (the 5 month comment) and I'm not sure this wasn't an intentional response targeting his agents claim of likely being done for the season. If you listen to McRoberts explain his rehab following the 2006 dislocated ankle/broken tibia injury that he sustained this is the same timeline he suggested was possible. The dislocated ankle would heal first in around 6 weeks and the tibia would take about 3 months.
This volleyballing between agent and Celtics is interesting.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/10/brad_stevens_clarifies_gordon.ampWALTHAM -- Boston Celtics head coach Brad Stevens said he did not mean to suggest a timeline for Gordon Hayward when he referenced how the injured All-Star plans to approach the next five months.
"I was just speaking generally, more focused on how to keep him engaged and active," Stevens clarified after practice Saturday. "But there's no timeline. And like it's been said, we're not anticipating having him back this year. But I got a lot of questions about that."
Covering his ass that's all. Where did the 5 months come from out of the sky? Why not 7 months or 8? He knew exactly what he was saying......Brad is always cognizant of the words that come out of his mouth.Brad clarified that yesterday:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/10/brad_stevens_clarifies_gordon.amp
Have to assume the "I got a lot of questions about that" was meant as everyone's been asking him about his 5-month comment, not that he has questions about the timeline.He clarified "officially" then still said he has questions. lol
Chances he hits a three pointer this season before Fultz?
I don't think Brad backtracking has anything to do with Haywards' agent.The agent's interest is in being sure no one starts suggesting Hayward isn't 'tough' or isn't trying to get back, right? I'd imagine he and team share that interest, ultimately, though on 'day one' they may not look like it.
Yes, It's interesting to see both sides position themselves publicly. Bartelstein leads off with Gordon not likely to return this year followed by Brad's 5-month comment which came just after Josh McRoberts, who also suffered the same injury in 2006, also suggested that Hayward could return if he worked hard enough.The agent's interest is in being sure no one starts suggesting Hayward isn't 'tough' or isn't trying to get back, right? I'd imagine he and team share that interest, ultimately, though on 'day one' they may not look like it.
Sorry to hear this. People do not realize the pain and frustration this causes but without a functioning calf muscle you are pretty much immobilized. I caught mine just before it fully pulled on two separate occasions and even only two weeks of it was a living hell. Get well soon brotha.In honor of Gordon I blew out my calf.
Note, if you are 52 years old, feeling thirsty and not loose, don't volunteer to fill in at the 7am pickup game you are supervising.
I have to believe that the first words out of IT's mouth (when he visited hayward in the lockerroom on opening night) were "Don't ever forget this is a business... so don't jeoporadize your long term well being out of a sense of obligation to the team".yes, I wasn't suggesting anything like that. I was just saying the Agent has an objective and that's why he is saying what he is, and in the end it likely isn't different than Celts objective. I think there's nothing here---we'll have to see how he heals to know anything.
If he's taking shots at an actual 10 foot rim, yeah. What is seated shooting though?Is seated shooting a good thing? Wouldn’t that mess his mechanics up? It’s not quite like Pedroia fielding ground balls on his knees.
Larry Bird did this in a game onceIf he's taking shots at an actual 10 foot rim, yeah. What is seated shooting though?